V12VSR manual

[cayman-black]

The first manual Roadster i have seen for sale. Ian any good for your collection? lol.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

[Flugplatz]

Its been for sale for a few weeks now.

what an odd spec !!!!!!!!!

[12pack]

Yes interesting that V12S's are now starting to show up when filtering on "manual" for gearbox
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...

[AdamV12V]

Both of those have just gone for the std mesh bonnet vents. Seems our opinion of them here on PH may not be reflected by the dealers (assuming these are dealer stock cars?)

[chesby]

The manual demonstrator at Stratstone Amersham has the standard bonnet mesh as well (and is up for sale on Autotrader for approx £15k below list when extras are taken into account).

[HBradley]

I have to say that with the 'reduction' in the standard spec for the manual, a pre-owned V12VS is looking more & more attractive.... as long as you like the SSIII.

[AdamV12V]

HBradley said:

I have to say that with the 'reduction' in the standard spec for the manual, a pre-owned V12VS is looking more & more attractive.... as long as you like the SSIII.

No, the spec changes are for the WHOLE AM range from MY17 production, not just the manual V12VS! This includes the SSIII V12VS - the spec of which is identical to the manual (other than the gearbox).

Edited by AdamV12V on Monday 28th November 17:24

[cayman-black]

Adam, HB said pre owned. I still think the original V12V is the best buy. I see the new manual is also missing the gearbox oil cooler.

[AdamV12V]

cayman-black said:

Adam, HB said pre owned. I still think the original V12V is the best buy. I see the new manual is also missing the gearbox oil cooler.

I was refering to where HB said "with the 'reduction' in the standard spec for the manual" rather than his stating a pre-owned car looked better value. The 'reduction' in spec is across the whole AM range from MY17 it's not really correct to refer to the spec reduction as being "for the manual", or indeed to imply it is specific to even just the Vantage range.

I thought the gearbox oil cooler was replaced back in 2003 as part of the various "S" revisions present on the V12VS - this article seems to suggest so anyway, indeed it suggests dropping it boosted power by 3HP http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=134...

No doubting that the older V12V models represent better value - they can be had for effectively half the price of a new V12VS, and it is after all 90% the same car, except for age.

[RobDown]

So here's my question for a cold Tuesday evening - are we seeing the second death of the manual gearbox? Has the take-up on the V12VS manual been sufficiently low to so as to convince Andy P not to bother with it on the new Vantage?

Anyone got any overall numbers here?

[AMDBSVNick]

RobDown said:

So here's my question for a cold Tuesday evening - are we seeing the second death of the manual gearbox? Has the take-up on the V12VS manual been sufficiently low to so as to convince Andy P not to bother with it on the new Vantage?

Anyone got any overall numbers here?

I assume if the emissions stack up they could simply offer it as a no cost option in the way Merc used to many years ago. Or am I being naive???

[AdamV12V]

Well Aston's are pretty niche at the best of times and even though the V12V is the drivers choice (GT8/12 excepted), its still not really a drivers car in the way say a Porsche 911 is seen.

I suggest therefore that a better benchmark for this question will be the success, or otherwise, of the take up on Manual gearboxes -vs- PDK-S on the new Porsche 991.2 GT3

[TKP]

AdamV12V said:

of the take up on Manual gearboxes -vs- PDK-S on the new Porsche 991.2 GT3

There will be a choice? 991.1 GT3 came only with PDK IIRC...

[Gettoff]

I feel there are a number of factors at play here, causing the apparent lack of orders for the manual. To give some context though we'd need to know how many SS cars are sold over the same period really.

Firstly, there is a new vantage around the corner, and maybe some potential buyers are waiting to see what that entails exactly. Early indications are the 4L turbo V8 and 7sp DCT from the AMG GTS, but I'm sure other permeatations will follow.

Secondly, maybe some people tried the V12VSM and didn't get on with the gearbox? I tried it, liked much of the other new bits over V12, but the box spoiled the drive to a degree rather than enhance it.

Thirdly, although it's related to the two points above, it's £140-160k depending on spec. That is a lot for what is an old, albeit still handsome car. Take into account Aston's recent history in terms of discounts leading to depreciation etc. The current global economic and political uncertainty plus what else can be bought for the same money, and you can possibly see why there hasn't been a stampede.

[AdamV12V]

TKP said:

AdamV12V said:

of the take up on Manual gearboxes -vs- PDK-S on the new Porsche 991.2 GT3

There will be a choice? 991.1 GT3 came only with PDK IIRC...

Yup, it is confirmed that Porsche will offer a manual box in the 991.2 GT3. Take up is expected to be 50:50, but time will tell!

Getoff makes some very valid points above - there is quite a lot of extra dynamics with the V12VSM. The proof will indeed be the takeup rate between MY17 V12VSM and V12VS-SSIII. I suspect PH owners will be slanted pro manual, but in real life that may not be the case.

[chesby]

The young salesman at Stratstone Amersham claimed to me last Thursday, when asked, that most sales of new cars were manuals.

Weren't all the spitfire themed V12s specked as manuals by their purchasers as well?

I would guess that the majority of new cars being specced by purchasers are manuals, how many in (probably) the last year of a long production run is another question.

I am planning to buy a manual to my own specification next year and will hope to negotiate a good discount as demand for the old vantage (v8s and V12s) falls in anticipation of a new model.

[CSK1]

chesby said:

I am planning to buy a manual to my own specification next year and will hope to negotiate a good discount as demand for the old vantage (v8s and V12s) falls in anticipation of a new model.

Or it could be quite the opposite, surging demand in anticipation of the new model. During my Gaydon factory tour last May I saw many DB9's being produced alongside the first DB11's, I was told demand for DB9 GT was very high since the introduction of DB11.
I wouldn't wait till next year to buy a Vantage as that may be too late, you are running the risk them not taking your order anymore as they'll focus on the new model.
Well, apparently you still want to buy a Vantage and not the new model to come and I don't think you are the only one.

[AMDBSVNick]

CSK1 said:

I was told demand for DB9 GT was very high since the introduction of DB11.

Really.

I know of two dealer stock cars sat there waiting for customers. Both are stunning Volante's and huge discounts to be had.

[jonby]

Gettoff said:

I feel there are a number of factors at play here, causing the apparent lack of orders for the manual. To give some context though we'd need to know how many SS cars are sold over the same period really.

Firstly, there is a new vantage around the corner, and maybe some potential buyers are waiting to see what that entails exactly. Early indications are the 4L turbo V8 and 7sp DCT from the AMG GTS, but I'm sure other permeatations will follow.

Secondly, maybe some people tried the V12VSM and didn't get on with the gearbox? I tried it, liked much of the other new bits over V12, but the box spoiled the drive to a degree rather than enhance it.

Thirdly, although it's related to the two points above, it's £140-160k depending on spec. That is a lot for what is an old, albeit still handsome car. Take into account Aston's recent history in terms of discounts leading to depreciation etc. The current global economic and political uncertainty plus what else can be bought for the same money, and you can possibly see why there hasn't been a stampede.

The reality is that V12VS with SS has been around a while whilst the manual option follows a c. 3 yr gap without the ability to have 3 pedals with a V12 (in any Aston). So take up right now is mostly manuals - that certainly seems to be the case with current orders

There aren't that many V12VS manuals being produced in absolute terms though I guess partly because there is a factory limit. They offered 100 manuals to America which IIRC I read had all been snapped up, so that's keeping them busy. Meanwhile others on here have suggested each dealership in the UK was guaranteed at most one manual V12VS with the possibility of one or two more if they could demonstrate they had sold the first. I might be mis remembering but it was certainly something along those lines that others have suggested is the policy. So we are talking perhaps 30ish cars in the UK over a 1 yr period ?

I suspect what doesn't help is that a few years ago, most people would have guessed that new vantage would be out by about now. As it is, we don't know if Vantage production will go on for 2 months or 2 years. That can't help sales of a car which as you say, is now an 'old car'. One assumes that those toying with the idea of buying may have their minds focussed as & when a date to production ceasing is announced and/or the replacement Vantage is launched which however good, will be a very different car

[chesby]

I have told the Aston Martin dealers that I am talking to that I want to order a car as late as possible next year, hopefully this will be June/July or even later. If I have to place the order in January I might not order. The cash I am planning to spend on the Aston is currently tied up in a property project.

Stratstone Amersham currently have their demonstrator for sale with 250 miles on the clock for circa £15k less than list. By June next year even if I cannot specify my own new car there will be cars available to buy in the dealer network. I know the colour and options I want but apart from lightweight seats I am pretty flexible on specs.

As for current Vantage production demand for V12s manuals may be high next year (last of the manual, normally aspirated V12s) but I can't imagine there will be a surge of demand for V8s after 10+ years of production.

If I miss out on car so be it. There is always another car/property/business deal/woman coming along so there is no nead to panic over missing out on a new production car.

In 2007 I nearly bought a 1973 Daytona For £107500 but didn't. That car is now worth £500k+. That is my missed opportunity in the car world. This isn't.