997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 v 997 GT2

[LeMaven]

Hi, I am planning to trade my pair of 996 Turbos (a facelift Turbo and a Turbo S, both manual coupes) plus some cash for one of the above. I will use the car for spirited road driving just a few times a year (not tracking), I have a few other cars and am lucky enough as a journalist to get new cars to review, so this will just be the "ultimate Porsche for the money" for occasional use only. (Whatever I buy has to be a manual/stickshift).

My experience of 997s is limited to the press cars I reviewed when they were new: C4S, C2 GTS, C4GTS, Turbo, Turbo S. Of which C2 GTS was probably my favourite, for its feel. I love the feel of this generation of Porsches. (In ancient times last century I owned an SC, 964, and 968).

I've been through the many very knowledgeable and helpful posts on this great forum over the last few days. However I would like to gauge the thoughts of the community on the following specific questions:

1. Is there a general view that GT3 RS 3.8 is a more exciting car than the GT2?

2. RS 3.8s are newer than GT2s, but also more complex (electronically, etc). Is one generally more reliable than the other?

3. Values (i) . To date. Big question in terms of wife-justification! Firstly, recent values, these cars seemed to have depreciated, risen up again, and come down again - and are they on the way up again? It appears so? Or am I wrong?

4. Values (ii). Speculation. GT3 RS 3.8 is the kind of focussed specialist car that the market seems to like at the moment (like a Scuderia, Challenge Stradale, 599 GTO etc in Ferrariworld, which I know a bit more about). But they will make more manual GT3s/and there's the R. GT2 is the last manual GT2, ever, and UK RHD numbers are lower. Is the GT2 a more logical "investment"? (I know nobody has a crystal ball, but there's a lot of experience and wisdom on here).

Thoughts much appreciated.

[996GT2]

Probably not the answer you want but it's really just a question of personal preference. If you loved the GTS then the 3.8 RS is probably more your kind of car. In terms of excitement I'm sure that you could argue the case for either car. I own a 997 GT2 and have driven GT3s and had many passenger laps in 3.8RSs. The GT2 is just more exciting in the way it delivers the power me for, it still feels crazy quick even after 5 years of driving it.

The question of values is another debatable one, with the world we're entering into in 2017 I wouldn't want to put any bets on anything!

[LaSource]

Both are great cars and depending on your intended use, and personal preference, either would make you proud.

It's a bit like Rock Paper Scissors or top trumps.
Turbo and Road pace may trump lower power track focus, HOWEVER, the RS badge trumps non-RS badge more (IMHO).

[996GT2]

LaSource said:

Both are great cars and depending on your intended use, and personal preference, either would make you proud.

It's a bit like Rock Paper Scissors or top trumps.
Turbo and Road pace may trump lower power track focus, HOWEVER, the RS badge trumps non-RS badge more (IMHO).

Agree with the RS badge top trumps thing, but then I'd also say that the 4.0 trumps the 3.8, and then the black 4.0 trumps the white one - so you're trumped whichever way you go, apt.

[ttdan]

As a journalist we were relying on you to tell us how to answer your question

Buy an RS if you have a choice

[LeMaven]

Very interesting thanks everyone. Yes the RS aura is attractive. As is the turbo thrust of the GT2. Which sounds like it's a lot more real-feeling than the 997 Turbo S (which I have driven) which has the same kind of power. I like the idea of the delicacy of the GT3 RS 3.8. And the looks.

But nobody wants to buy at a model's peak I guess. Have prices done that sine wave thing I tried to describe, or am I imagining that? I'm sorry I haven't been following the market for these specific models too carefully until recently.

(Journalists ask lots of questions..good ones may give the right answers..which I don't claim to be..But I am not a car journalist, writing about cars is just a fun sideline.)

[Cheib]

LeMaven said:

But nobody wants to buy at a model's peak I guess. Have prices done that sine wave thing I tried to describe, or am I imagining that? I'm sorry I haven't been following the market for these specific models too carefully until recently.

You aren't at the peak. When the 991 GT3 RS came out and the first few examples were selling for around £250k the 3.8 RS was fetching £180k to £200k....although RPM sold one exceptional PTS car very quickly for what was rumoured to be close to its £220k asking price!

In terms of rising values again its a massive call on the 991.2 GT3 and whether that's a manual car and how many they make...and then how many they make of the 991.2 GT3 RS. Many people think the 997.2 GT3 RS over time will be worth more than the 991.1 GT3 RS...what we have seen so far though is that its prices are tracking that of its newer brother with say a £30 to £50k gap between the two.

Personally I think Porsche will be tempted to make quite a few 991.2 GT3's..the demand is there and it would keep a lot of pissed off (but very good) customers happy who haven't been able to get an allocation of the last two or three GT products. There's also a need to make money in the VW Group at the moment so Porsche might be told by "upstairs" to make more cars.

Edited by Cheib on Monday 28th November 22:09

[LeMaven]

That's good to know, thank you. Current asking prices (which of course not selling prices) in PH Classifieds for GT3 RS 3.8 are 210k, 190k, 180k, 175k, 172k, 160k and 160k. So definitely down a bit since then.

[ruebdo]

Both great cars and both sound investments in my eyes.

Over times both will be more and more sought after. Personally RS gets my vote. Having bought a 991 GT3 RS new I sold it for a 997 RS because I preferred the old school driving experience.

But if you are trying to catch the market just right you will wait for ever.

I really do not think you will lose on either so I would get buying before the spring!!!

[RSVP911]

ruebdo said:

Both great cars and both sound investments in my eyes.

Over times both will be more and more sought after. Personally RS gets my vote. Having bought a 991 GT3 RS new I sold it for a 997 RS because I preferred the old school driving experience.

But if you are trying to catch the market just right you will wait for ever.

I really do not think you will lose on either so I would get buying before the spring!!!

Hi R , long time no speak, good to see you on here again. Interesting journey that, like Groundhog Day for you . What type is your second one ?

[LeMaven]

That's good to know, Ruebdo. A real vote with your feet. I did review the 991 GT3 (not RS) when it came out. Great car but it would not tap me on the shoulder and make me take it for a blast for the joy of it, over my other cars. These things are personal of course.

I will be "buying without trying" because dealers/vendors understandably don't offer proper test drives on these cars, which is where all the commentary and experience on this forum is so useful.

[996GT2]

LeMaven said:

Very interesting thanks everyone. Yes the RS aura is attractive. As is the turbo thrust of the GT2. Which sounds like it's a lot more real-feeling than the 997 Turbo S (which I have driven) which has the same kind of power. I like the idea of the delicacy of the GT3 RS 3.8. And the looks.

GT2 is more of a motorsport experience compared to turbo, it's noisy, raw and feels much closer to the GT3 than the old 996 GT2 did. The 997 moved towards the GT3 in my opinion, it turns sharper and the turbo delivery from the VTGs gives more linear power than the 996 (brutal good fun car but less usable than 997).

There are only 50 - 60 997s in the UK, a few LHD cars have appeared to take advantage of the market here but well-looked-after UK cars are pretty rare, there are some 'known' cars out there. My guess is that long term it's a pretty safe bet, the 991 GT2 RS will probably be an auto tech fest so the spotlight will be back on these old-school GT2s again soon I think.

Either way you can't go wrong, I'd love a 3.8 RS as well but the GT2 feels like the modern version of the 911s I grew up wanting so it's a very special car to me.

[Robbo66]

I sold my 991GT3 and bought the 997.2RS, and feel the 991 offers 90% of the 991-RS. Massively capable, but nowhere as regards feel of the 997.2RS.
GT2 never on the radar, and never will be. Gilds the Lilly uncecessarily IMV. Cult following, but in the same way that the one guy in class who had the Kraftwerk album, and sat on the corner, whilst everyone else was listening to Queen.
Try selling one on too...zero mileage top spec = top money...silly money. Below that ....you have been warned.

[TheAnimal]

ruebdo said:

Both great cars and both sound investments in my eyes.

Over times both will be more and more sought after. Personally RS gets my vote. Having bought a 991 GT3 RS new I sold it for a 997 RS because I preferred the old school driving experience.

But if you are trying to catch the market just right you will wait for ever.

I really do not think you will lose on either so I would get buying before the spring!!!

After waiting 4 years for my 991 RS I was left disappointed and I am glad I sold it. The 997 3.8 RS was a more engaging and raw drive that was special from the moment you turned the key. I drove the 991 RS very very hard around silverstone and I walked away not wanting it. Polar opposite of my experience with the 3.8 RS which I what I hoped the 991 RS would have been more of.

[LeMaven]

Really appreciate everyone's feedback. It sounds like there are owners who prefer each. One thing I hadn't realised til doing some more research is the discrepancy between original sale prices. GT3 RS were around 100k and GT2s were around 165k.

That's quite a difference, Porsche pitching them at different markets/buyers?

[LeMaven]

I am looking at a 3.8 GT3 RS this week, it has the following options on the build sheet. Could anyone please tell me if there is something crucial missing? Or something it has but should not. UK C16 car. I don't mind not having front lift. Thank you.

MNR


Type


Description

450


CERAMIC - BRAKES (PCCB)

454


CRUISE CONTROL

490


ASK SOUND PACKAGE

567


WINDSCREEN WITH TOP TINT

579


6-PT. SEAT BELT, PASSENGER

585


CUPHOLDER

666


PCM 3 - TELEPHONE (GSM)

810


FLOOR MATS

870


UNIVERS. MULTIMEDIA INTERFACE

P23


Porsche Communication Management (PCM) including Navigation Module

XES


PRE-WIRING F. ILLUM. DOOR ENTRY GUARDS

XMJ


REAR CENTRE CONSOLE, CARBON

XXD


DOOR ENTRY GUARDS IN CARBON, ILLUMINATED

XXG


TAIL LIGHTS IN CLEAR GLASS LOOK

[Robbo66]

LeMaven said:

I am looking at a 3.8 GT3 RS this week, it has the following options on the build sheet. Could anyone please tell me if there is something crucial missing? Or something it has but should not. UK C16 car. I don't mind not having front lift. Thank you.

MNR


Type


Description

450


CERAMIC - BRAKES (PCCB)

454


CRUISE CONTROL

490


ASK SOUND PACKAGE

567


WINDSCREEN WITH TOP TINT

579


6-PT. SEAT BELT, PASSENGER

585


CUPHOLDER

666


PCM 3 - TELEPHONE (GSM)

810


FLOOR MATS

870


UNIVERS. MULTIMEDIA INTERFACE

P23


Porsche Communication Management (PCM) including Navigation Module

XES


PRE-WIRING F. ILLUM. DOOR ENTRY GUARDS

XMJ


REAR CENTRE CONSOLE, CARBON

XXD


DOOR ENTRY GUARDS IN CARBON, ILLUMINATED

XXG


TAIL LIGHTS IN CLEAR GLASS LOOK

No need for lift, average spec. Fine. Mileage ?.

[RSVP911]

Robbo66 said:

No need for lift, average spec. Fine. Mileage ?.

Er , more importantly - colour and stickers ?

[Robbo66]

RSVP911 said:

Robbo66 said:

No need for lift, average spec. Fine. Mileage ?.

Er , more importantly - colour and stickers ?

Don't start, you coming to Oulton with Henry ?

[RSVP911]

Robbo66 said:

Don't start, you coming to Oulton with Henry ?

It's all sold out and Henry hasn't invited me to the ball - I plan to sweep the fireplaces instead !

I was planning on going and getting some tuition from thegoose who posted on the thread - however, he doesn't have a pass either.

I will keep an eye out and hope someone drops out so I can come along - it would be really nice to finally meet up with some of the posters on here. Funny you should mention Henry. We keep saying we should meet up for a drive and I mention that I know someone on PH also from wales (you) and if we do, we should tie up with them as well - looks like I'm too late in this respect, as I believe you already know each other ?

Keep well