Single pilot ops
Discussion
I've read about a few biz jets that can be set up to be flown by one pilot instead of two. Even talk of some control rearrangement available for the DC3 for the same reason.
But what's the safety advantage of having two pilots if you need both? Surely if one B747 pilot drops dead the other is expected to land it on their own?
But what's the safety advantage of having two pilots if you need both? Surely if one B747 pilot drops dead the other is expected to land it on their own?
Well you've partly answered your own question; if one drops dead you've got another guy who should be capable of landing the aircraft on his own - quite important with hundreds of lives at risk on board and on the ground.
Even in normal operations on a larger aircraft the workload can be very heavy at times, in an emergency even more so. It's just safer all round. More importantly, with two pilots you've got two chances to catch a mistake - you'd be amazed how often mistakes are made, especially when fatigued! I think you'd also be surprised by some of the incompetence displayed in the cockpit - there are some very bad pilots out there who are in charge of very large planes!
Even in normal operations on a larger aircraft the workload can be very heavy at times, in an emergency even more so. It's just safer all round. More importantly, with two pilots you've got two chances to catch a mistake - you'd be amazed how often mistakes are made, especially when fatigued! I think you'd also be surprised by some of the incompetence displayed in the cockpit - there are some very bad pilots out there who are in charge of very large planes!
Crumpet said:
Well you've partly answered your own question; if one drops dead you've got another guy who should be capable of landing the aircraft on his own - quite important with hundreds of lives at risk on board and on the ground.
Exactly. So why does a flight deck need modifying to be flown by a single pilot? If it needs two to fly it then having one of the two dropping dead means the other can't land it. If it can be flown single pilot from either seat then what do you need to change before the authorities let you fly it with one pilot?Sometimes necessity means that the ideal of two cannot be acheived. During World War 2 the RAF was forced by shortage of trained aircrews to only use single pilots on their heaviest bombers. Before the war it had been assumed (with some exceptions) that any bombers or transports with two or more engines would need two pilots. For example, the Wellington and Whitley were originally designed for a pilot and co-pilot.
The Americans didn't have the same shortages so they retained the normal pilot/co-pilot set up on their heavy bombers.
The Americans didn't have the same shortages so they retained the normal pilot/co-pilot set up on their heavy bombers.
Dr Jekyll said:
Exactly. So why does a flight deck need modifying to be flown by a single pilot? If it needs two to fly it then having one of the two dropping dead means the other can't land it. If it can be flown single pilot from either seat then what do you need to change before the authorities let you fly it with one pilot?
Ah, sorry, now I understand your question. I think the answer is that it's not so much the limitations and layout of the aircraft but more due to regulations from the authorities. I'm not an expert on the regulations that govern this sort of thing as I just get in and fly them, so I'm ready to stand corrected! Anyway, I suspect it's down to aircraft weight with aircraft over a certain weight requiring two pilots for commercial air transport. Not sure what the cutoff is (maybe 5700kg?) but I believe the CJ can be flown single pilot for private ops but must have two crew for commercial ops.Dr Jekyll said:
I've read about a few biz jets that can be set up to be flown by one pilot instead of two. Even talk of some control rearrangement available for the DC3 for the same reason.
But what's the safety advantage of having two pilots if you need both? Surely if one B747 pilot drops dead the other is expected to land it on their own?
I've personally worked two emergencies where one of the pilots has been suddenly incapacitated, I would not be comfortable flying with just one. The blackbushe crash is an example of what happens when one person is overloaded and has no support and no one to pick up on their errors.But what's the safety advantage of having two pilots if you need both? Surely if one B747 pilot drops dead the other is expected to land it on their own?
Flew from Arkansas into Oshkosh for the EEA show in the right-hand seat of a mate's Phenom 300 this year - amazing bit of kit, and I was very impressed with the degree to which the systems simplified single-pilot IFR ops. Obviously, things are probably different when it's all gone Pete Tong, in foul weather and all of the toys have dropped off line because the generators have crapped themselves and the circuit is full of microlights and crocodiles or whatever...but the view from FL450 is *very* nice.
I was anticipating the arrival at Oshkosh to be a bit more fraught that it actually was - during the show the massed VFR arrivals get to jump through all manner of hoops, but with an IFR arrival slot it was actually quite relaxed - the only excitement was seeing two grey shapes lining up on the threshold as we were established on final - "Are those Harvards?" - I couldn't tell either, and if they were Harvards (and chances are at Oshkosh if you throw a bun over your shoulder you'll hit a Harvard) then we were definitely going round - but then two huge clouds of black smoke appeared and what turned out to be a pair of F-86 Sabres poked off down the runway with plenty of time to spare.
djc206 said:
The blackbushe crash is an example of what happens when one person is overloaded and has no support and no one to pick up on their errors.
Or to act as a reality check / common sense check. I fly the same type as the Blackbushe accident (Embraer Phenom 300). Max take off weight is 8340Kg and it is certified for single pilot ops. However - a single pilot certified aircraft cannot be flown single pilot for Commercial Air Transport. This would include any charter operations. The only way they can be flown single pilot is 'privately' or non CAT i.e. filed as a private flight with the owner on board etc.
There are several reasons why an owner might want to do this privately:
- only paying salaries / expenses / hotels & transport for one crew member
- to extend the range of a very small aircraft (i.e. one less person on say a Citation Mustang means more passengers can be carried with max fuel)
- to carry more passengers than the number of 'passenger' seats in the cabin allows
- the owner might be a pilot and likes to fly himself on his own aircraft
The private flying sector used to be largely unregulated however this is now being tightened up a little under part NCC (Non Commercial Complex) which means that even private operators now need operations 'manuals'.
FuzzyLogic said:
Or to act as a reality check / common sense check.
I fly the same type as the Blackbushe accident (Embraer Phenom 300). Max take off weight is 8340Kg and it is certified for single pilot ops. However - a single pilot certified aircraft cannot be flown single pilot for Commercial Air Transport. This would include any charter operations. The only way they can be flown single pilot is 'privately' or non CAT i.e. filed as a private flight with the owner on board etc.
There are several reasons why an owner might want to do this privately:
- only paying salaries / expenses / hotels & transport for one crew member
- to extend the range of a very small aircraft (i.e. one less person on say a Citation Mustang means more passengers can be carried with max fuel)
- to carry more passengers than the number of 'passenger' seats in the cabin allows
- the owner might be a pilot and likes to fly himself on his own aircraft
The private flying sector used to be largely unregulated however this is now being tightened up a little under part NCC (Non Commercial Complex) which means that even private operators now need operations 'manuals'.
I also remember the Citation CJ2 that stalled over Coventry because the single owner pilot cocked up.I fly the same type as the Blackbushe accident (Embraer Phenom 300). Max take off weight is 8340Kg and it is certified for single pilot ops. However - a single pilot certified aircraft cannot be flown single pilot for Commercial Air Transport. This would include any charter operations. The only way they can be flown single pilot is 'privately' or non CAT i.e. filed as a private flight with the owner on board etc.
There are several reasons why an owner might want to do this privately:
- only paying salaries / expenses / hotels & transport for one crew member
- to extend the range of a very small aircraft (i.e. one less person on say a Citation Mustang means more passengers can be carried with max fuel)
- to carry more passengers than the number of 'passenger' seats in the cabin allows
- the owner might be a pilot and likes to fly himself on his own aircraft
The private flying sector used to be largely unregulated however this is now being tightened up a little under part NCC (Non Commercial Complex) which means that even private operators now need operations 'manuals'.
Who do you fly for? I've probably spoken to you before.
mebe said:
I have flown recently in a Navajo with a single pilot and was told it counted as a commercial flight during the brief?
Sorry, I should have said "a single pilot certified JET aircraft or turbo prop with more than 9 seatscannot be flown single pilot for Commercial Air Transport.The rules are a little more complex than I went in to detail with, however the regulation says:
(c) Specific requirements for aeroplane operations under instrument flight rules (IFR) or at night.
(1) The minimum flight crew shall be two pilots for all turbo-propeller aeroplanes with a maximum operational passenger seating configuration (MOPSC) of more than nine and all turbojet aeroplanes.
(2) Aeroplanes other than those covered by (c)(1) shall be operated with a minimum crew of two pilots, unless the requirements of ORO.FC.202 are complied with, in which case they may be operated by a single pilot.
ORO.FC.202 refers to additional training and operational requirements that single pilot flight crew have to undertake to fly under Instrument Flight Rules or at night.
FuzzyLogic said:
Sorry, I should have said "a single pilot certified JET aircraft or turbo prop with more than 9 seatscannot be flown single pilot for Commercial Air Transport.
The rules are a little more complex than I went in to detail with, however the regulation says:
(c) Specific requirements for aeroplane operations under instrument flight rules (IFR) or at night.
(1) The minimum flight crew shall be two pilots for all turbo-propeller aeroplanes with a maximum operational passenger seating configuration (MOPSC) of more than nine and all turbojet aeroplanes.
(2) Aeroplanes other than those covered by (c)(1) shall be operated with a minimum crew of two pilots, unless the requirements of ORO.FC.202 are complied with, in which case they may be operated by a single pilot.
ORO.FC.202 refers to additional training and operational requirements that single pilot flight crew have to undertake to fly under Instrument Flight Rules or at night.
Ah thanks for the clarification.The rules are a little more complex than I went in to detail with, however the regulation says:
(c) Specific requirements for aeroplane operations under instrument flight rules (IFR) or at night.
(1) The minimum flight crew shall be two pilots for all turbo-propeller aeroplanes with a maximum operational passenger seating configuration (MOPSC) of more than nine and all turbojet aeroplanes.
(2) Aeroplanes other than those covered by (c)(1) shall be operated with a minimum crew of two pilots, unless the requirements of ORO.FC.202 are complied with, in which case they may be operated by a single pilot.
ORO.FC.202 refers to additional training and operational requirements that single pilot flight crew have to undertake to fly under Instrument Flight Rules or at night.
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