nervous at work
Discussion
hopefully got the right section for this, i thought it was more of a health issue than an employment issue.
I have my review coming up at work soon and I’m keen to try and negotiate a payrise. Its been a number of years since my last one and I feel my experience, extra qualifications and responsibilities warrant a rise, this also ties up with the industry level of pay for someone with similar skills.
My trouble is that I hate talking to my boss about things like this, I get hot, flushed, my hands shake and sometimes even my lower jaw, I even struggle to get out what I want to say ever so often.
I’ve been like this even from school when I always felt intimidated talking to teachers about something important but it’s worse now. During normal working day I would say I’m was fairly confident and don’t have any trouble communicating normally.
Has anyone else experienced this issue? Did you manage to find a way around it? I’m sure I’m worth the rise but if I come across as a bumbling, nervous idiot, I’m not sure my boss will agree!
I have my review coming up at work soon and I’m keen to try and negotiate a payrise. Its been a number of years since my last one and I feel my experience, extra qualifications and responsibilities warrant a rise, this also ties up with the industry level of pay for someone with similar skills.
My trouble is that I hate talking to my boss about things like this, I get hot, flushed, my hands shake and sometimes even my lower jaw, I even struggle to get out what I want to say ever so often.
I’ve been like this even from school when I always felt intimidated talking to teachers about something important but it’s worse now. During normal working day I would say I’m was fairly confident and don’t have any trouble communicating normally.
Has anyone else experienced this issue? Did you manage to find a way around it? I’m sure I’m worth the rise but if I come across as a bumbling, nervous idiot, I’m not sure my boss will agree!
Maybe it would help to formalise it all in a letter to your boss? During the meeting, present the letter in which you could outline your justifications regards added skills / qualities that you bring to the role?
Just a thought. I wanted to work from home, slightly different scenario granted, but a 3.5 page letter detailing every aspect of my proposal in line with the home working policy secured what I wanted. Again, like you I provided evidence to support the outcome I wanted.
Sometimes it is also easier for the manager as they have something concrete to take away to discuss with HR, as opposed to quickly scrawled notes during the meeting. It may also make it easier for you to talk it through with them as you have every noted in front of you. You could even draft an abridged bullet list version for yourself as notes to take in with you so you don't get flustered.
Whatever you decide good luck for it, it is too easy to get looked over if you are not strong enough or able to present a viable proposition verbally. Don't let it stand in your way - focus on a method of communication that will work for you in the meeting.
Just a thought. I wanted to work from home, slightly different scenario granted, but a 3.5 page letter detailing every aspect of my proposal in line with the home working policy secured what I wanted. Again, like you I provided evidence to support the outcome I wanted.
Sometimes it is also easier for the manager as they have something concrete to take away to discuss with HR, as opposed to quickly scrawled notes during the meeting. It may also make it easier for you to talk it through with them as you have every noted in front of you. You could even draft an abridged bullet list version for yourself as notes to take in with you so you don't get flustered.
Whatever you decide good luck for it, it is too easy to get looked over if you are not strong enough or able to present a viable proposition verbally. Don't let it stand in your way - focus on a method of communication that will work for you in the meeting.
schmunk said:
Blimey, 3.5 pages?
I'd have agreed just to get out of reading it...
I'm a bid writer, anything less my boss would have started worrying!I'd have agreed just to get out of reading it...
By the time you draft your way around the 10 headed sections in our work at home policy it doesn't take long to rack up the page count. It still took 10 months to get finally signed off!
Try some Kalms? I was on some medication a few years ago that made me nervous in close situations like that, I would lock up and fumble with words and feel very stressed. Took a few Kalms before a meeting just for the hell of it and it worked, I was much more relaxed. I'm not suggesting they're a panacea, could be a load of old nonsense but for whatever reason they did work on me, took about 4 in the few hours before.
I haven't used them for anything since and don't advocate woo-woo of any form but there you are.
I haven't used them for anything since and don't advocate woo-woo of any form but there you are.
I'm like that. I can be very confident and even fairly quick-witted at certain times; When I'm relaxed with people I know I won't offend (like friends and stuff), talking about something I actually know about or am enthusiastic about, or sat behind a computer screen.
I begin to struggle like you when it's a high-pressure situation, or when I'm with people that aren't on the same kind of page with humour that I am (probably a bit darker than most). I even struggle in confrontation with my parents, because I can't use everything in my arsenal at them in the event of a row, for fear of offending them. Likewise a boss - I can't respond to criticism confidently if I'm not confident I can say exactly what I'm thinking.
As an example, I would completely crumble in a situation like on The Apprentice. In situations like those, I'm the person who thinks of the perfect thing to retort with......about 10 hours later.
On the flipside, if I get chatting to someone at a car show or at work (about cars) I can talk completely confidently, no problem. Having confidence in what you're saying is vital.
The only way I've found to try and improve the situation is to remain calm (which is where the suggestion of Kalms is a good one IMO). Staying calm, holding back, not saying much all helps me gain confidence (and staying shut-up isn't in my nature as my limited circle of friends would tell you!) But if you can stay cool, calm and collected, you find you can think straighter, and every thought doesn't come at you at 500mph.
I quite often end up in social situations where people think things go over my head, or I get beaten down in arguments/debates. The reality is I'm thinking the joke that's been told isn't funny, the point that's being made is total b
ks, or I can't say what I really think, as the crowd I'm with would not appreciate my thoughts. My mum would cry if she knew some of the stuff that's passed my lips over the years!
I suspect you're similar. You're bright enough, good at the job and probably justified in wanting the rise. But, you're lacking in confidence in confrontational situations, all the thoughts come at you too fast and you have the pressure of feeling like you're not arguing your case well, which in turn knocks your confidence further.
Stay calm, try and find a way to relax and don't over concentrate - that's my view. Every now and then (it was less often than that, really) I could have my whole class in stitches in school if I heckled the teacher with something, but EVERY single time it was something I'd put no thought into and just said off the top of my head. If I thought of something and thought 'This is going to make everyone crease up!' I'd call it out, and find it was followed by the most awkward silence ever. The teacher wouldn't even bk me for it, as the shame and embarrassment was all the punishment I needed. So - hard as it is to describe - don't try too hard. Try and let your points come out naturally, as they come to you, as I guarantee they'll be put better if you're not trying too hard.
And don't waffle on. That's what I'm doing now, and I do it all the time to hide my inbuilt hate of interacting with people and feeling uncomfortable around (most) others.
I begin to struggle like you when it's a high-pressure situation, or when I'm with people that aren't on the same kind of page with humour that I am (probably a bit darker than most). I even struggle in confrontation with my parents, because I can't use everything in my arsenal at them in the event of a row, for fear of offending them. Likewise a boss - I can't respond to criticism confidently if I'm not confident I can say exactly what I'm thinking.
As an example, I would completely crumble in a situation like on The Apprentice. In situations like those, I'm the person who thinks of the perfect thing to retort with......about 10 hours later.
On the flipside, if I get chatting to someone at a car show or at work (about cars) I can talk completely confidently, no problem. Having confidence in what you're saying is vital.
The only way I've found to try and improve the situation is to remain calm (which is where the suggestion of Kalms is a good one IMO). Staying calm, holding back, not saying much all helps me gain confidence (and staying shut-up isn't in my nature as my limited circle of friends would tell you!) But if you can stay cool, calm and collected, you find you can think straighter, and every thought doesn't come at you at 500mph.
I quite often end up in social situations where people think things go over my head, or I get beaten down in arguments/debates. The reality is I'm thinking the joke that's been told isn't funny, the point that's being made is total b
ks, or I can't say what I really think, as the crowd I'm with would not appreciate my thoughts. My mum would cry if she knew some of the stuff that's passed my lips over the years!I suspect you're similar. You're bright enough, good at the job and probably justified in wanting the rise. But, you're lacking in confidence in confrontational situations, all the thoughts come at you too fast and you have the pressure of feeling like you're not arguing your case well, which in turn knocks your confidence further.
Stay calm, try and find a way to relax and don't over concentrate - that's my view. Every now and then (it was less often than that, really) I could have my whole class in stitches in school if I heckled the teacher with something, but EVERY single time it was something I'd put no thought into and just said off the top of my head. If I thought of something and thought 'This is going to make everyone crease up!' I'd call it out, and find it was followed by the most awkward silence ever. The teacher wouldn't even b
k me for it, as the shame and embarrassment was all the punishment I needed. So - hard as it is to describe - don't try too hard. Try and let your points come out naturally, as they come to you, as I guarantee they'll be put better if you're not trying too hard.And don't waffle on. That's what I'm doing now, and I do it all the time to hide my inbuilt hate of interacting with people and feeling uncomfortable around (most) others.
Thanks for all the replys chaps, i really appreciate it!
Thanks again for the help, i'll let you as and when we discuss it and how it goes!
Kiwi LS2 said:
Sometimes it is also easier for the manager as they have something concrete to take away to discuss with HR, as opposed to quickly scrawled notes during the meeting. It may also make it easier for you to talk it through with them as you have every noted in front of you. You could even draft an abridged bullet list version for yourself as notes to take in with you so you don't get flustered.
I think this is a great idea, I wasnt sure whether to write it down but i suppose he might not be able to make the call himself and would appreciate something to discuss with his managers.br d said:
I would lock up and fumble with words and feel very stressed.
This is exactly what happens, im glad im not on my own, i might give the kalms a try, thanks for the tip!j4ckos mate said:
Just go easy on yourself.
Bit of fear Keeps you on your toes
Thanks! one of my close friends said something similar, i suppose the nervousness shows how much i want it.Bit of fear Keeps you on your toes
Thanks again for the help, i'll let you as and when we discuss it and how it goes!
When I was younger, I found it hard to look senior staff in the eye.
My new girlfriend kept reminding me that they are no better than and still go the loo just the same.
You are not inferior to any of them.
Slightly different but I used to get very nervous giving presentation.
Got over that by practicing in a room on my own. (As advised by PH)
Videoing yourself (again advised by PH) is also good as you can quickly correct the body language that shows your nerves.
Made a huge difference to me after only 3 hours of practice when I realized how much the nervousness had dissipated.
My new girlfriend kept reminding me that they are no better than and still go the loo just the same.
You are not inferior to any of them.
Slightly different but I used to get very nervous giving presentation.
Got over that by practicing in a room on my own. (As advised by PH)
Videoing yourself (again advised by PH) is also good as you can quickly correct the body language that shows your nerves.
Made a huge difference to me after only 3 hours of practice when I realized how much the nervousness had dissipated.
Remember they are the same as you....they are a squidgy human being with the same fears and desires.
Remember they too have worked in a role such as yours and they to have had to talk to their boss about an awkward subjects. They didn't suddenly magic themselves into that position, and also they still have a boss to answer to themselves.
Don't go bumbling straight in, make some small talk (don't talk about the weather!) find some common ground..... good topics right now are Gin or Craft Beer, if a drinker. If you know they like cars, ask them about that....
Remember they too have worked in a role such as yours and they to have had to talk to their boss about an awkward subjects. They didn't suddenly magic themselves into that position, and also they still have a boss to answer to themselves.
Don't go bumbling straight in, make some small talk (don't talk about the weather!) find some common ground..... good topics right now are Gin or Craft Beer, if a drinker. If you know they like cars, ask them about that....
As someone on the receiving end of these sorts of conversations I would say practice, make sure you are confident why you deserve a rise, tell me what you do differently to others, what unique skills you have, how you've earned me more money etc. I.e. Present a small business case on yourself, I'd probably expect you to take on more responsibility, be after a headline promotion etc. no point paying you more to carry on doing the same job you do already and seem to be quite happy to get paid £x for at the moment.
Good luck with the review. It's OK to take a notebook into the meeting, and write down some key points ahead of time. You might cover some points like:
1) Thank boss for his/her time (Basic, but when I'm really nervous I can forget social niceties)
2) Note that it's been a while since last review, so it's great to have an opportunity to compare notes and expectations
2a) Say that you want to cover a bit of ground, so you've made some notes to make sure you don't leave anything out
3) Take opportunity to mention something that's gone well recently ("I was really pleased that we won the Jenkins account")
4) Describe your recent training and mention one or two specific benefits to the firm ("My recent appearance on Masterchef taught me a lot about multitasking under pressures, which is useful when we are trying to meet our month-end deadlines")
5) Ask open question about prospects and opportunities at the firm, and use this conversation to focus in on specific ways you can move on and up. (It's OK to be ambitious)
If you get time, have a practice run with someone.
1) Thank boss for his/her time (Basic, but when I'm really nervous I can forget social niceties)
2) Note that it's been a while since last review, so it's great to have an opportunity to compare notes and expectations
2a) Say that you want to cover a bit of ground, so you've made some notes to make sure you don't leave anything out
3) Take opportunity to mention something that's gone well recently ("I was really pleased that we won the Jenkins account")
4) Describe your recent training and mention one or two specific benefits to the firm ("My recent appearance on Masterchef taught me a lot about multitasking under pressures, which is useful when we are trying to meet our month-end deadlines")
5) Ask open question about prospects and opportunities at the firm, and use this conversation to focus in on specific ways you can move on and up. (It's OK to be ambitious)
If you get time, have a practice run with someone.
This is a stressful situation and quite important to you, so its easy to see how you can become emotive about that, everyone does. It shows you care.
My only other point is, when discussing why you feel you deserve more money is to focus on your tangible benefit to the company, its bottom line, any cost saving and profit that you have a direct influence on. Get this stuff written out.
A colleague of mine received a massive pay rise and a bonus for going through the atrocious process of moving 300 sites onto online utility bill payment and onto standing orders, she saved the company nearly a million quid and a lot of time has been saved in the long run and the sites power usage can be better managed. She took in a spreadsheet of the saving per site, tangible information that her line manager used to justify the payrise to HR and when the CEO (or whoever) saw it she got a bonus.
Your qualifications and experience don't mean much if your not using it to benefit the companies profit or share price.
My only other point is, when discussing why you feel you deserve more money is to focus on your tangible benefit to the company, its bottom line, any cost saving and profit that you have a direct influence on. Get this stuff written out.
A colleague of mine received a massive pay rise and a bonus for going through the atrocious process of moving 300 sites onto online utility bill payment and onto standing orders, she saved the company nearly a million quid and a lot of time has been saved in the long run and the sites power usage can be better managed. She took in a spreadsheet of the saving per site, tangible information that her line manager used to justify the payrise to HR and when the CEO (or whoever) saw it she got a bonus.
Your qualifications and experience don't mean much if your not using it to benefit the companies profit or share price.
Not had to use them myself so far, but I am reliably informed they can be very efficacious.Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff