Car damage with CCTV - Need Help Please
Discussion
Players, I need a bit of guidance here for my sister. I'll keep this brief.
She works in a medical practice and last week came out to find her car damaged, the dealer has quoted £2200 and is therefore an insurance job. She asked the manager there to look at the CCTV, which he did and came back to her to show her the following.
Medium size SUV attempts to park next to her and clearly strikes her car, reverses and parks somewhere else. Driver gets out and looks at damage to my sisters car, picks up dirt off the floor and wiped it over the door in a bad attempt to cover the damage. She then comes into the surgery with her husband/partner who has an appt. She then leaves. Her face is clearly visible on her way in and out of the surgery and surgery records show who she was with. Timings of inner and outer CCTV match and confirm it was her. The car park CCTV is too grainy to match the number plate but you can see the make/model of car with the 07 plate.
Partner who saw the patient says he is 'unable' to contact his patient and also unable to provide details. He says he thinks he is not allowed by law to do this.
Sister went to the police, told them that reception is quite willing to hand over the name of the patient if the police come to ask/investigate and the road traffic team have bacically said that its a low level crime and that they won't investigate it. The understand my sisters frustration but there is nothing they will do without a number plate. She then cited that the whole incident is on CCTV and 5 minutes of their time will show this. They didn't change their position.
Is there anything she can do to make the police make some time for her? I know they have 'more important' things to deal with but surely a crime is a crime?
She works in a medical practice and last week came out to find her car damaged, the dealer has quoted £2200 and is therefore an insurance job. She asked the manager there to look at the CCTV, which he did and came back to her to show her the following.
Medium size SUV attempts to park next to her and clearly strikes her car, reverses and parks somewhere else. Driver gets out and looks at damage to my sisters car, picks up dirt off the floor and wiped it over the door in a bad attempt to cover the damage. She then comes into the surgery with her husband/partner who has an appt. She then leaves. Her face is clearly visible on her way in and out of the surgery and surgery records show who she was with. Timings of inner and outer CCTV match and confirm it was her. The car park CCTV is too grainy to match the number plate but you can see the make/model of car with the 07 plate.
Partner who saw the patient says he is 'unable' to contact his patient and also unable to provide details. He says he thinks he is not allowed by law to do this.
Sister went to the police, told them that reception is quite willing to hand over the name of the patient if the police come to ask/investigate and the road traffic team have bacically said that its a low level crime and that they won't investigate it. The understand my sisters frustration but there is nothing they will do without a number plate. She then cited that the whole incident is on CCTV and 5 minutes of their time will show this. They didn't change their position.
Is there anything she can do to make the police make some time for her? I know they have 'more important' things to deal with but surely a crime is a crime?
I would be going back and raising hell with the police , you have done all the work for them ! Its not as if its a low level unsolved crime you have an offender , so what if next time they run a child over oh there is no one about hit and run?
Inspector level call to local station would work I feel . It did when my car was stripped of parts on our driveway with full HD cctv and reg number.
Inspector level call to local station would work I feel . It did when my car was stripped of parts on our driveway with full HD cctv and reg number.
That's disgraceful - I understand the surgery's position though because they could only give you a name and therefore it would be fairly easy for them to be accused of breaking confidentiality. Any chance the surgery could just let you know when said scum is next in so your sister could grab the numberplate?
Is the difficulty here that the Surgery will know who the patient was, but not who the driver was. Even if you did bypass patient confidentiality, there won't be any requirement for the patient to disclose the details of the drivers or vehicle.
Without a registration plate there will be little either the police or the insurance company can do.
Without a registration plate there will be little either the police or the insurance company can do.
The data protection act allows for information to be released in the event of criminality or at least I'm pretty sure it does. Lots of data controllers don't understand the act. I'd ask who the data protection officer is and threaten to make a complaint against them. Meanwhile look into 'The Act'. I'd also make a complaint against the police if they won't budge.
The Surveyor said:
Is the difficulty here that the Surgery will know who the patient was, but not who the driver was. Even if you did bypass patient confidentiality, there won't be any requirement for the patient to disclose the details of the drivers or vehicle.
Without a registration plate there will be little either the police or the insurance company can do.
The car may be parked at the patient's house if it belongs to a close relative. Also, the patient may divulge driver details if visited by the bib. It's worth pursuing imo. The insurance companies expect claimants to mitigate their losses.Without a registration plate there will be little either the police or the insurance company can do.
Legal advice and proceedings
Personal data is exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure of the data is necessary:
for or in connection with any legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings);
for obtaining legal advice; or
for establishing, exercising or defending legal rights.
You do not have to disclose personal data in response to a request from a third party simply because this exemption applies. You can choose whether or not to apply the exemption to make a disclosure, and you should do so only if you are satisfied that the disclosure falls within the scope of the exemption. In other words:
it is necessary for one of the above purposes; and
applying the non-disclosure provision would be inconsistent with the disclosure.
When faced with a request for disclosure, it can be difficult to decide whether the necessity test can be satisfied. You may also be reluctant to make a disclosure of personal data because of your relationship with the individual. In such circumstances you may decide not to comply with the request, unless obliged to do so under a court order.
Personal data is also exempt from the subject information provisions if it consists of information for which legal professional privilege (or its equivalent in Scotland) could be claimed in legal proceedings.
Personal data is exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure of the data is necessary:
for or in connection with any legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings);
for obtaining legal advice; or
for establishing, exercising or defending legal rights.
You do not have to disclose personal data in response to a request from a third party simply because this exemption applies. You can choose whether or not to apply the exemption to make a disclosure, and you should do so only if you are satisfied that the disclosure falls within the scope of the exemption. In other words:
it is necessary for one of the above purposes; and
applying the non-disclosure provision would be inconsistent with the disclosure.
When faced with a request for disclosure, it can be difficult to decide whether the necessity test can be satisfied. You may also be reluctant to make a disclosure of personal data because of your relationship with the individual. In such circumstances you may decide not to comply with the request, unless obliged to do so under a court order.
Personal data is also exempt from the subject information provisions if it consists of information for which legal professional privilege (or its equivalent in Scotland) could be claimed in legal proceedings.
Boosted LS1 said:
The data protection act allows for information to be released in the event of criminality or at least I'm pretty sure it does. Lots of data controllers don't understand the act. I'd ask who the data protection officer is and threaten to make a complaint against them. Meanwhile look into 'The Act'. I'd also make a complaint against the police if they won't budge.
This would be covered by the NHS Patient Confidentiality policy, not the Data Protection Act. They only need to disclose when it's in the public interest, and that's not clear-cut. A minor parking bump caused by a 3rd party is unlikely to qualify. Boosted LS1 said:
The car may be parked at the patient's house if it belongs to a close relative. Also, the patient may divulge driver details if visited by the bib. It's worth pursuing imo. The insurance companies expect claimants to mitigate their losses.
You're right and I hope I'm wrong, but you are hoping that the patient will grass-up their wife. They've already shown that she's tried to rub soil into the damage to hide the accident so you're just as likely to get a "oh I think I got a lift in with a friend that day, I think she has a similar car but I can't remember, I was ill you know...." as you are an admission. I'm just not sure an insurance company would push it that far given the lack on interest from the police and the relatively modest value of the claim.If I were your sister I would write to the practice manager. I would say
"I have suffered a loss of £2200 due to a criminal act that occurred on the premises. The practice have info at their disposal that could lead to the identification of the culprit and possible recovery of my losses, but are unwilling to assist. As a result I have no choice but to seek compensation from the practice themselves. Could you please let me have full details of the practice employers & public liability cover so that I can make insurers aware of the situation."
If nothing else, that should put the domestic feline amongst that flying rats and perhaps the brown stuff will hit the quickly rotating thing, if you catch my drift.
"I have suffered a loss of £2200 due to a criminal act that occurred on the premises. The practice have info at their disposal that could lead to the identification of the culprit and possible recovery of my losses, but are unwilling to assist. As a result I have no choice but to seek compensation from the practice themselves. Could you please let me have full details of the practice employers & public liability cover so that I can make insurers aware of the situation."
If nothing else, that should put the domestic feline amongst that flying rats and perhaps the brown stuff will hit the quickly rotating thing, if you catch my drift.
The Surveyor said:
This would be covered by the NHS Patient Confidentiality policy, not the Data Protection Act. They only need to disclose when it's in the public interest, and that's not clear-cut. A minor parking bump caused by a 3rd party is unlikely to qualify.
tell me more about this NHS Patient Confidentiality policy. Does this policy overrule the DPA?I wouldn't have thought the practice themselves are in ANY way liable for a car park bump so threatening them like that is unlikely to yield any results.
I would also imagine, regardless of whether it's the DPA or NHS rules, that the practice is also on very iffy ground releasing any patient info to a member of the public, whatever the reason.
As said, get back down the police station and kick up a fuss. They absolutely should be dealing with this, even if it's just to get the reg plate for you.
Make sure the practice hold the CCTV because in the unlikely event you can't get the police to take an interest, the insurance company may well be able to get them to and then it will be needed.
I would also imagine, regardless of whether it's the DPA or NHS rules, that the practice is also on very iffy ground releasing any patient info to a member of the public, whatever the reason.
As said, get back down the police station and kick up a fuss. They absolutely should be dealing with this, even if it's just to get the reg plate for you.
Make sure the practice hold the CCTV because in the unlikely event you can't get the police to take an interest, the insurance company may well be able to get them to and then it will be needed.
OverSteery said:
The Surveyor said:
This would be covered by the NHS Patient Confidentiality policy, not the Data Protection Act. They only need to disclose when it's in the public interest, and that's not clear-cut. A minor parking bump caused by a 3rd party is unlikely to qualify.
tell me more about this NHS Patient Confidentiality policy. Does this policy overrule the DPA?https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
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