V8 starter problems - Help Please

[purrfect]

Well, it looked like a good afternoon - beautiful sunshine and warm. She (350i) started after not having used her for 5 weeks. Nice run, then oh dear, bad accident, stuck in traffic for ages. After not moving for 10 /15 mins, thought she might over-heat, so turned engine off. When eventually, (hurrah_ I could move 2 metres forward, she refused to start, not a sound, nothing. Great as I was in middle of queue of traffic. Rang helpful garage who said this was common problem in Chims and any TVR with V8 - solenoid in starter had overheated standing so long. Any advice please chaps? Has anyone managed to overcome this?

[seb400]

Purrfect
My 350i suffered a similar problem just before I sold it. Not a permanent cure but does get you going. I used to carry a 3ft 2x1" length of wood or an old broom handle in the boot. If the starter motor refused to spin I used to tap it a few times with the end of the length of wood or broom handle which often freed it up enough to get it going again. I guess a new starter motor is needed!

Steve

[purrfect]

seb400 said:

Purrfect My 350i suffered a similar problem just before I sold it. Not a permanent cure but does get you going. I used to carry a 3ft 2x1" length of wood or an old broom handle in the boot. If the starter motor refused to spin I used to tap it a few times with the end of the length of wood or broom handle which often freed it up enough to get it going again. I guess a new starter motor is needed! Steve

Sorry, think Im tired and fed up now. Thank you Steve, but from what garage said no use in trying to poke it - problem was due to it overheating (not sticking) and would have to wait for it to restart when cooled (which it did eventually). What I need to know is can anything be done to solenoid/starter to stop it overheating??


>> Edited by purrfect on Friday 18th March 18:51

[paul gotts]

purrfect said:

What I need to know is can anything be done to solenoid/starter to stop it overheating?? >> Edited by purrfect on Friday 18th March 18:51

The starters on the Wedges run very close to the n/s manifold, sometimes actually touching, which is not great for starter life as you have found. You can try wrapping the part of the manifold closest to the starter with exhaust wrap (like fibreglass bandage, secured with metal straps), or wrapping the starter with a sheet of similar insulating material, usually with an alumiminsed finish, or fabricate a heat shield from thin ally sheeting. Can't remember offhand if the Bible covers any of this.

Paul

[purrfect]

The starters on the Wedges run very close to the n/s manifold, sometimes actually touching, which is not great for starter life as you have found. You can try wrapping the part of the manifold closest to the starter with exhaust wrap (like fibreglass bandage, secured with metal straps), or wrapping the starter with a sheet of similar insulating material, usually with an alumiminsed finish, or fabricate a heat shield from thin ally sheeting. Can't remember offhand if the Bible covers any of this.

Paul[/quote]

Oh dear, although Im a girl who does know a bit about engines, Im getting confused (and Ive had some wine!!). Thank you Paul, I have looked deep in engine and know starter motor is next to exhaust deep down, but I thought you would need to do something actually inside starter motor ????

>> Edited by purrfect on Friday 18th March 19:57

[parrot of doom]

Get yourself a heat-shield from www.mod-wise.com/page9.html

Will sort that out right away.

[dickymint]

Hi Anya - you would be better off posting on the Wedge forum. Also, if you havent already,, check out this site....www.tvrwedgepages.co.uk/
Finally have you booked in for BBWF 2005 yet?

[paul gotts]

purrfect said:

but I thought you would need to do something actually inside starter motor ???? >> Edited by purrfect on Friday 18th March 19:57

No, insulating the entire starter/solenoid from the manifold usually does the trick - unless, like mine a couple of years ago, it had got so bad that it started to smoke and melt its internals.

[purrfect]

dickymint said:

Hi Anya - you would be better off posting on the Wedge forum. Also, if you havent already,, check out this site....www.tvrwedgepages.co.uk/ Finally have you booked in for BBWF 2005 yet?

I didnt put query on Wedge forum, as garage had told me this was problem with Chimaeras and other V8s, so i thought I'd broaden my search for answers!

No, I haven't booked for BBWF as I'm far too scared to travel any distance in it on my own (for fear of breaking down!!)

[purrfect]

parrot of doom said:

Get yourself a heat-shield from www.mod-wise.com/page9.html Will sort that out right away.

Thank you, that's great - I have looked at this site and will send for one. Then there is just the small problem of fitting it ....!!!

[gruffgriff]

Blimey, spooky timing.
My Griff`s starter literally fried itself yesterday - turned the key, solenoid clicked.....and clicked and clicked until draining the battery flat whilst emmitting an alarming amount of smoke.It refused to stop shorting when I`d removed the key, and the battery drain set the alarm into erratic mode - very saddening to hear it`s `voice` getting weaker and weaker until it gasped it`s last.
AA man said much as has been said here - solenoid gets very hot and warps out of shape. Mine must have shorted on it`s own casing.
So new starter required and was advised to replace older battery which was made unstable by the event. Will get one of the above heat shields too - thanks for the link to that.
Bible says Bosch or Lucas - are they standard motors I can get from any competent factor?

[sam_strachan]

Very spooky indeed - I just went for a nice drive and was giving the engine something to work for so it was nice and hot. Parked up for ten minutes and it wouldn't start. Not a sausage. In retrospect it seems likely to be this. Eventually got it started after leaving it a short while (and popping the hood open). I love TVRs.

[gruffgriff]

Careful everyone - my week started with a new radiator core and has ended with a new starter motor. I`m worried these things might come in threes.....

[purrfect]

Hello, sorry to hear you both having problems too - I understood it only occurred when just standing/running long periods in traffic with no chance to cool at all. (It hasnt happened to me before in 2 years). Anyway took her out again today, didnt get stuck in traffic, did stop to get Optimax and got back in, went to start it hoping and praying, and luckily she was ok. But I am going to get heatshield. Think thats definitely the answer.

[doddze]

Hi Anya

hope you get the heat shield sorted..... but 5 weeks without taking the car out the spring is here....... must do better

[spend]

If you do a search on starter heat shields, I think the jury is still out on the benefit of this at the moment. After initial suggestions that wrap was the holy grail, many are now saying it actually retains conducted heat and the problems just occur at diffent times....

AFAIUI the heat causes a problem with the solenoid throw - maybe a higher temp lubricant in this area would be the answer.

BTW LR started to use a heat shield - not a wrap.

I would have thought the modwise 'fan run on' is a better bet to work than the heat shield.

Dave

[david beer]

A relay in the circuit has so far cured 99.9% of cars. The solenoid will draw 13 amps, the cable will not supply! A relay in the footwell is easy and cheap and should be done to every car, just like a Range Rover.

[purrfect]

david beer said:

A relay in the circuit has so far cured 99.9% of cars. The solenoid will draw 13 amps, the cable will not supply! A relay in the footwell is easy and cheap and should be done to every car, just like a Range Rover.

Sorry, can you explain to this to me please? What would I have to do? Where would you put the relay in circuit? Oh dear, just when I thought I had found the solution, ie getting heatshield, then I learn this is not so. Wish things could be simple!!

[purrfect]

doddze said:

Hi Anya hope you get the heat shield sorted..... but 5 weeks without taking the car out the spring is here....... must do better

Now look sir, in the extreme easterly parts here, we have been experiencing snow and ice (and nasty gritting) and it has not been possible. I shall be having firm words with you at the next Essex meet (when I arrive in the Renault!!!)

[Ballistic Banana]

purrfect said:

david beer said: A relay in the circuit has so far cured 99.9% of cars. The solenoid will draw 13 amps, the cable will not supply! A relay in the footwell is easy and cheap and should be done to every car, just like a Range Rover. Sorry, can you explain to this to me please? What would I have to do? Where would you put the relay in circuit? Oh dear, just when I thought I had found the solution, ie getting heatshield, then I learn this is not so. Wish things could be simple!!

The relay helps get the correct voltage at the Starter. (also the actual wire could be changed for a better one).
Due to the heat in the engine bay the wire gets very hot also and loss of voltage can occur in this wire and hence not being enough too kick the starter off.
From what i understand it is very simple to connect the relay, you just need to access the fuse panel.

BB