964

[Jonathan DLP]

Hi

Currently looking to get into 964 ownership and posted here a few weeks ago. The search is now on and I have just got back from looking at a nice LHD C4 at Oakhills, 68k miles and £16k. Now mulling over whether to get it inspected and would appreciate your thoughts on a couple of things before taking it further:

Does that price seem about right for a good clean example from a dealer?

Any recommendations for an 'inspector' who would travel to outer London to give it the once over?

Thanks

Jonathan

[rubystone]

That seems a lot of money to me...and I wouldn't personally buy a C4 - too much understeer and who needs the 4wd unless you are going to use it everyday?

[poorcardealer]

Agree with above, the Carrera 2 is a sharper car that will cost less to run.

[roygarth]

Yep, my 964 was a C4 and I regretted buying it the first time I went round a corner in the dry! Get a C2.

[tony.t]

£16k for LHD seems expensive to me as well. Despite what you may have read regarding the performance of C4 and C2 being the same a C4 is much slower, the 4WD system eats hp and they weigh 100kg more. The only time a C4 is faster than a C2 is in mud or snow.
The reputation for understeer must mean they're pretty bad since a stock C2 understeers.

[gazzab]

Id expect a nice 964 RHD private for that.

[johncameron]

according to the porsche mags you should pay 12 to 14grand for that from a dealer , rhd cars have stayed around the same, 15 to 20 grand for the past 3 yrs! sorry not from london

[pesty]

I havnt driven a C2 but I'm sure the guys are correct when they say it is probably a more fullfilling drive.

however

It was warm today and I went out for a mini hoon in my C4. had a bit of a play with a VXR 220 and it never understeered once. I wasnt hanging about but yes I probably wasnt as commited as I could have been on the turn in.

I need my car everyday and have used it all winter(ok it hasnt been that bad weather wise)

Not everyone drives like Schumacher everywhere and if you don't a C4 will be just fine for you.

If I had the choice again yes I may have opted for a C2 but I think a C4 was a good choice for me as a first Porsche.

its a fantastic car and I love it. so yes the C2 may ultimately be the better drivers car but a C4 is still a very good car and if you buy it im sure you will enjoy it.

[Jonathan DLP]

Thanks for the replies. I am actually planning on using it everyday, rain or shine (or even snow), which is what was steering me towards a C4.

Thanks Pesty for your thoughts as a C4 owner. This will be my first 964 too and a lot of my weekday driving will be fairly uninspiring so on the limit handling is not what I am chasing (I currently drive a diesel A6 and an LPG Discovery!) although hopefully I'll find some time for fun at weekends.

I'd also thought that £16k seemed a bit steep but on the other hand if it really proves to be as good as it looks then I'd probably pay around that.

Thanks again

Jonathan

[Melv]

Don't believe all the b0ll0cks about understeering C4's.........I had one for six years and there are ways around that.......as a daily driver it's the best -rain, snow and shine.......frankly at £16K though, I think this one is at least £2K over....

[rubystone]

Melv, I bow to your superior knowledge - I guess the very early 964 C4 that I drove at the launch of the car and which scared me shitless when it tried to send me into the curb was a one-off case then ;-)

This car is massively overpriced, especially given that it's lhd. Using an lhd everyday can be a bit of a fag. Do yourself a favour and look for an RHD car - good ones can easily be bought for the price you're thinking of paying. I bet the salesman at this dealership had a big smile on his face when you showed interest....

When you come to sell it, I think that you are going to have a problem:-

If you use it every day, you're going to pile the miles on - the next purchaser is then going to start to worry about top end issues if he looks at your car with approaching 100k miles on the clock.

It's a C4 - most buyers want a C2, especially as the cars get older and the type of buyer changes from someone who wants an everyday car to someone who wants a fair weather toy.

It's lhd - lhd cars sell at a price. Try to price the car too close to an RHD equivalent and you'll be stuck with the car. How much will a lhd 964 C4 be worth in 2 years?...I'd say well south of £10k (cheapest I've seen was a 1990 lhd C4 with 100k miles sell for £7k recently and I bet the trade have paid even less)

FWIW there was (is?) an lhd 993 on Pistonheads at £18k or so recently. Not sure whether it's a C4, but that's massively better value than the 964 you're looking at.

[Melv]

rubystone said:

.....early 964 C4...... .

"In it's first production year the Carrera 4 had an 18mm diam. rear anti-roll bar. To correct excessive understeer the diam. was increased to 21mm, as also used in the C2"

Rgds
Mel

edited to include quote from Paul Frere

>> Edited by Melv on Sunday 20th March 13:52

[rubystone]

Well there you go, thanks Melv - it does prove that the first of the breed may not be at all comparable with the last of the breed. I mean, just look at the Metro - the first was awful and the last (the Kensington) was errrrr.........

[tony.t]

I thought 964C4 understeer was caused by the mechanical diff fixed torque distribution sending a load of torque to the front wheels when accelerating out of a corner.

[pesty]

I beleive the PDAS system causes a mechanicly induced understeer in certain conditions.

(I think the idea is that if you give it too much out of a bend and lose traction at the rear the system tries to save your from spinnig by making the car understeer effectivly steering into the spin for you)

I have only ever encounted this while driving quickly in the wet on tight roundabouts. I have never had understeer on fast bends

a dab of the brake disengages the Pdas from doing this apparently once its started.

I have not had my car understeering since I spun it but that was wet and cold. I now have new tyres(same all around) and its been dry and warmer. I have been turning in quite hard altough not as hard I could in the integra.
This is also down to me not being used to the weight that I can feel moving around. I do not have 100% confidence in the car yet so cannot drive as aggresivly as I would normaly. Im driving more smootly and less ragged.

the last car has an lsd which needed a different style again to other fwd cars I had driven so of course this is completely different again.




>> Edited by pesty on Sunday 20th March 15:54

[iguana]

Quite like 964 C4s myself, drive 'em like a tit across country in the wet & you don't really need to always remember that the engine is at the wrong end, they quite likes a bit of holligan action & ok they can bite if you drive like an absolute & utter arse, but with decent tyres on those limits are flippin' high & unlike a C2 that power to the front wheels really can help if youve done something silly.

C4s need lowering, they look plain daft at the front end at boggo standard ride height, use decent springs- Eibach/H&R etc & pref new shocks & a decnet geo set & they are ace- way better than standard.

[poorcardealer]

Melv said:

rubystone said: .....early 964 C4...... . "In it's first production year the Carrera 4 had an 18mm diam. rear anti-roll bar. To correct excessive understeer the diam. was increased to 21mm, as also used in the C2" Rgds Mel edited to include quote from Paul Frere >> Edited by Melv on Sunday 20th March 13:52

last 3 Carrera 4s I have owned all understeered like pigs.........90/91/92 cars??

[Melv]

Melv said: "I had one for six years and there are ways around that......."

Iguana said: "C4s need lowering, they look plain daft at the front end at boggo standard ride height, use decent springs- Eibach/H&R etc & pref new shocks & a decent geo set & they are ace- way better than standard."

Thankyou, young man -you took the words right out of my mouth.....can I add a strut brace too?

And for sure, you need to alter your driving technique -4WD is not the be all and end all solution to loss of traction......