How do i expand my business or start another along side it?
Discussion
Evening All,
Currently running my own Quantity Surveying and construction estimating business. Been a ltd company for just over 2 years and so far so good. Work for a number of different clients pricing work as minor as £2k, all the way up to £10m or so in various sectors, predominantly civils, fitout, commercial and bit of domestic work.
I’ve 2 or 3 people doing bits of work for me on a sub-contract basis which works well, albeit they work remotely and not full time. Because of the way that I work, predominantly for builders/contractors rather than end user type clients, I tend to work from their offices, albeit I’ve my own small office at home.
At end of year 2, turnover increased by around 14% whilst costs increased by just 7%.
Albeit I’m doing ok with it – I feel I need to add to it – either by growing this business or by spreading my wings a little with something else.
How do I do this though?
As for expanding the QS business – I believe the natural step is to look to start to actually employ the sub-contract surveyors on a full time basis in a rented office. However, I don’t quite feel I could sustain 2 x QS salaries, with benefits – say £120k for the 2 of them, as well as an office with rates, utilities, commercial waste etc – at say another £6k a year for a really small place. I appreciate that 2 x full time QS staff is going to adequately the £126k costs – but I’m not sure I can get that level of work just yet.
Any thoughts?
Alternatively, looking at other ideas. As much as I like running the QS business, I feel that I’m limiting my earnings by working on a fee basis. Either I’m stuck on X per day or making X per day per surveyor, or working on a fixed price again either losing out as work takes longer, or being limited in that clients typically know how long work will take me to do.
Have some £ available and looking at a number of options. Even looked at buying a Transit Connect and badging it us as a van rental business and renting it to one of my QS business clients, undercutting their current nationally based supplier. Also, looking at using my contacts and setting up a building company, bringing big construction skillset to the domestic market – however, feel that with professionalism comes cost – particularly as I’m no tradesman and would pretty much sub-contract everything – a situation that probably means I wouldn’t be competing well with local one man band builders who can do a bit themselves.
I had a car sourcing website once, a small brokering firm when I was about 21. Worked ok but I didn’t have the marketing budget then. I do now but reckon I’ve missed the boat a bit. I’ve not got the time to really answer car sales calls whilst in other folks (builders) offices – however, I could perhaps afford to pay someone to run this business and give them targets to achieve over say 6 months as a trial to see if this could work. Problem is where to find said person!
Also, thought about a hiring a small shop and trying to find a barber or hairdresser who doesn't want the hassle of running a business but just wants to cut hair - however, not sure where to find said barber?
Car sales - looked at importing Jap stuff but the exchange rates post-brexit doesn't really make this look as appealing as it once was.
Any thoughts as to my thoughts? Be nice!
Currently running my own Quantity Surveying and construction estimating business. Been a ltd company for just over 2 years and so far so good. Work for a number of different clients pricing work as minor as £2k, all the way up to £10m or so in various sectors, predominantly civils, fitout, commercial and bit of domestic work.
I’ve 2 or 3 people doing bits of work for me on a sub-contract basis which works well, albeit they work remotely and not full time. Because of the way that I work, predominantly for builders/contractors rather than end user type clients, I tend to work from their offices, albeit I’ve my own small office at home.
At end of year 2, turnover increased by around 14% whilst costs increased by just 7%.
Albeit I’m doing ok with it – I feel I need to add to it – either by growing this business or by spreading my wings a little with something else.
How do I do this though?
As for expanding the QS business – I believe the natural step is to look to start to actually employ the sub-contract surveyors on a full time basis in a rented office. However, I don’t quite feel I could sustain 2 x QS salaries, with benefits – say £120k for the 2 of them, as well as an office with rates, utilities, commercial waste etc – at say another £6k a year for a really small place. I appreciate that 2 x full time QS staff is going to adequately the £126k costs – but I’m not sure I can get that level of work just yet.
Any thoughts?
Alternatively, looking at other ideas. As much as I like running the QS business, I feel that I’m limiting my earnings by working on a fee basis. Either I’m stuck on X per day or making X per day per surveyor, or working on a fixed price again either losing out as work takes longer, or being limited in that clients typically know how long work will take me to do.
Have some £ available and looking at a number of options. Even looked at buying a Transit Connect and badging it us as a van rental business and renting it to one of my QS business clients, undercutting their current nationally based supplier. Also, looking at using my contacts and setting up a building company, bringing big construction skillset to the domestic market – however, feel that with professionalism comes cost – particularly as I’m no tradesman and would pretty much sub-contract everything – a situation that probably means I wouldn’t be competing well with local one man band builders who can do a bit themselves.
I had a car sourcing website once, a small brokering firm when I was about 21. Worked ok but I didn’t have the marketing budget then. I do now but reckon I’ve missed the boat a bit. I’ve not got the time to really answer car sales calls whilst in other folks (builders) offices – however, I could perhaps afford to pay someone to run this business and give them targets to achieve over say 6 months as a trial to see if this could work. Problem is where to find said person!
Also, thought about a hiring a small shop and trying to find a barber or hairdresser who doesn't want the hassle of running a business but just wants to cut hair - however, not sure where to find said barber?
Car sales - looked at importing Jap stuff but the exchange rates post-brexit doesn't really make this look as appealing as it once was.
Any thoughts as to my thoughts? Be nice!
Edited by sider on Wednesday 21st December 20:02
The first thing I would do is have a think what you want to focus on and divert your attention to that. If the QS business is doing well try and upscale that rather than start something totally fresh which would be draining, possibly not successful and take your eyes off the golden goose that pays the bills!
The other thing you can do is focus on add ons and other business activity related to your main business. Much easier dealing with stuff you know that you know generates income than getting "mission drift" and going off in multiple directions. We can all have 10 business ideas a day but you have to follow the one that gives you the best return for the time and effect on other things you are doing.
The other thing you can do is focus on add ons and other business activity related to your main business. Much easier dealing with stuff you know that you know generates income than getting "mission drift" and going off in multiple directions. We can all have 10 business ideas a day but you have to follow the one that gives you the best return for the time and effect on other things you are doing.
loafer123 said:
I have no really useful suggestions other than to comment that you are far too entrepreneurial to be a QS.
That being said, the natural progression would be a developer who actually understands build costs....
I think that's a compliment! Thanks!That being said, the natural progression would be a developer who actually understands build costs....
Always been a bit like this. Quite like design though but couldn't draw - so ruled architecture out; fancied accountancy but found being in an office a bit too dull - so QS'ing was the perfect mix of buildy stuff and the outdoors, and number crunching and P&L. Tend to do more estimating now to be honest.
Interesting though regarding developers. An old boss of mine who was my Commercial Manager has just bought a piece of land and built 2 houses on it. I've watched his progress via Facebook and speaking to a mutual former colleague earlier in the week, apparently it's gone swimmingly because of both his actual building knowledge and commercial know-how, rather than a developer employing a builder to do it all as one big package.
Edited by sider on Wednesday 21st December 21:08
fridaypassion said:
The first thing I would do is have a think what you want to focus on and divert your attention to that. If the QS business is doing well try and upscale that rather than start something totally fresh which would be draining, possibly not successful and take your eyes off the golden goose that pays the bills!
The other thing you can do is focus on add ons and other business activity related to your main business. Much easier dealing with stuff you know that you know generates income than getting "mission drift" and going off in multiple directions. We can all have 10 business ideas a day but you have to follow the one that gives you the best return for the time and effect on other things you are doing.
Sounds good. One thing i do note is that often business ideas of mine seem to relate to cars. Natural as a bit of a car nut blessed with a fairly dull motoring history of insurance friendly small engined cars and then dull company cars - generally - so any excuse to spend money on cars is always welcome (by me - not the wife!)The other thing you can do is focus on add ons and other business activity related to your main business. Much easier dealing with stuff you know that you know generates income than getting "mission drift" and going off in multiple directions. We can all have 10 business ideas a day but you have to follow the one that gives you the best return for the time and effect on other things you are doing.
That said - i think it takes a certain person to work in a certain industry. If i did by a used car from Japan to sell on, i'd have no idea who to go to for SVA stuff for example. Likewise, i'm lost with engines.
You're probably right about sticking to what you know. I perhaps need to look at that a little more. It feels like the right thing to do really. Just need to find a way to have add to the business something that's a little less fee-based though, less 'capped' by time - or perhaps find a way to employ a lot more people, keep them busy and work ON the business rather than IN the business as i'm doing at the moment.
Don't really feel i've been very risky with what i've done so far. I think if i actually stopped 'QSing' for a week or two and looked to visit potential customers, i'd be able to build up a fair chunk of work.
If you know construction, sub-contracting and pricing, I'd start a decent building firm. Market it well, set your stall doing everything from bathroom installs to extensions and full builds, from a project management pov. Have a minimum spend so you're not messing around changing leaking taps but offer a comprehensive service, that delivers, for people who want work done but don't have the knowledge/know how/contacts. I've already built a house and while the project was big, finding people to do the work wasn't too difficult. However, now the jobs are smaller (and that's 3-7k small, not £200 here and there), and all about finishing, even the 'good guys' are few and far between. And that's the ones who have already earned a good, consistent crust from our work thus far. I actually thought about doing it for a living but couldn't cope with the assholery. I would probably pay someone another 20-30% to get find the people and get the jobs finished, without the hassle to me. And that's coming from someone with a bit more knowledge than the average house owner.
sider I'm in a kinda similar position to you (albeit maybe a bit behind), currently working on a freelance basis with my own limited company, been doing this a few years now and have a wee bit of cash built up. now I'm starting to think what can I do to 'progress', now I could easily just keep on doing the freelance thing myself or look to move up the ladder a bit.
at the moment there is huge demand for QS's in Scotland, friends working for main contractors seem to be really struggling to find people. I've been thinking of branching out into a bit of recruitment and trying to source QS's for friends, I'd like to think with my knowledge I'd be able to sift through CV's and cut out all the BS and help get suitable candidates for companies or or subcontract out these QS's myself and take an ongoing cut.
small building projects are another thing I have seriously considered, as you mentioned just knowing about costs/ building/ quality etc.... is a huge thing and not to be underestimated. the amount of small 'things' you pick up when looking at completed works that need snagging, but non construction people would maybe think is ok. the only problem with these small projects is- you need quite a few different projects on the go if your only making £500 a kitchen/ bathroom.... how do you project manage all of these at once, if clients expect you to be on site every day.
I've also thought about going completely left field and starting importing things and setting up an e-commerce site..... but don't think I have the skills myself and it looks like its already a very cut throat market and very small margins!
at the moment there is huge demand for QS's in Scotland, friends working for main contractors seem to be really struggling to find people. I've been thinking of branching out into a bit of recruitment and trying to source QS's for friends, I'd like to think with my knowledge I'd be able to sift through CV's and cut out all the BS and help get suitable candidates for companies or or subcontract out these QS's myself and take an ongoing cut.
small building projects are another thing I have seriously considered, as you mentioned just knowing about costs/ building/ quality etc.... is a huge thing and not to be underestimated. the amount of small 'things' you pick up when looking at completed works that need snagging, but non construction people would maybe think is ok. the only problem with these small projects is- you need quite a few different projects on the go if your only making £500 a kitchen/ bathroom.... how do you project manage all of these at once, if clients expect you to be on site every day.
I've also thought about going completely left field and starting importing things and setting up an e-commerce site..... but don't think I have the skills myself and it looks like its already a very cut throat market and very small margins!
skintemma said:
If you know construction, sub-contracting and pricing, I'd start a decent building firm. Market it well, set your stall doing everything from bathroom installs to extensions and full builds, from a project management pov. Have a minimum spend so you're not messing around changing leaking taps but offer a comprehensive service, that delivers, for people who want work done but don't have the knowledge/know how/contacts. I've already built a house and while the project was big, finding people to do the work wasn't too difficult. However, now the jobs are smaller (and that's 3-7k small, not £200 here and there), and all about finishing, even the 'good guys' are few and far between. And that's the ones who have already earned a good, consistent crust from our work thus far. I actually thought about doing it for a living but couldn't cope with the assholery. I would probably pay someone another 20-30% to get find the people and get the jobs finished, without the hassle to me. And that's coming from someone with a bit more knowledge than the average house owner.
Agreed.Do something within your own area of expertise, expert knowledge of pricing allows you to insert yourself between trade and retail to earn a markup.
Who begrudges payment for good service and value ?
Find a joiner or electrical or groundworks or whatever small subby, the kind who's great at his job but can barely write, and has a coupe of guys working with him, usually ones a relative
. Get in on the business, with your QS/contract skills and his on the ground construction skills you should make a tidy profit, and grow that side the business from there, it's really no different from what you doing at the moment and has a lot more scope for profit...or loss.
. Get in on the business, with your QS/contract skills and his on the ground construction skills you should make a tidy profit, and grow that side the business from there, it's really no different from what you doing at the moment and has a lot more scope for profit...or loss.Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff