V12S Sportshift 3 transmission
Discussion
Hi everyone and please excuse me if this subject has been discussed previously. I keep having an itch to get into a V12S and I've seen a car with a good spec but it has the SS transmission and I am wondering how you guys get along with it to live with day to day.
The car will be used for fun and running around but I don't plan it to be my only car as I would like to keep the 911PDK and share duties with the AM.
Can anyone give me their experiences of SS3 transmission and how they find it compared to Porsche PDK on a 991? Am I going to be disappointed? Should I really be looking/holding out for the manual?
I have driven a sport shift briefly, but it was only a short drive and at the time I was in a Cayman GT4 and really wanted a manual box so I didn't give the SS3 much attention.
I've switched into a PDK 911GTS and am loving the whole car and the gearbox so I am wondering will the SS3 be a disappointment?
Is there anything else I would look out for with the V12S - essential extras etc. Can anyone let me know when the latest AMI was introduced onto the V12S and how can I tell the difference between the new generation and the previous?
I know I need to get out and drive one properly but would appreciate any thoughts or comments.
The car will be used for fun and running around but I don't plan it to be my only car as I would like to keep the 911PDK and share duties with the AM.
Can anyone give me their experiences of SS3 transmission and how they find it compared to Porsche PDK on a 991? Am I going to be disappointed? Should I really be looking/holding out for the manual?
I have driven a sport shift briefly, but it was only a short drive and at the time I was in a Cayman GT4 and really wanted a manual box so I didn't give the SS3 much attention.
I've switched into a PDK 911GTS and am loving the whole car and the gearbox so I am wondering will the SS3 be a disappointment?
Is there anything else I would look out for with the V12S - essential extras etc. Can anyone let me know when the latest AMI was introduced onto the V12S and how can I tell the difference between the new generation and the previous?
I know I need to get out and drive one properly but would appreciate any thoughts or comments.
The key thing here is that the SS (1,2 and 3) are not dual clutch systems, they are robotised manuals. Basically, if you expect it to be as smooth as your PDK you'd be in for a big shock. However, the key thing here is it isn't meant to be as smooth, it's not supposed to be driven as an auto in any form. The main thing to do is try drive it like a manual but changing gears with the paddles, so each time you change up you feather the throttle slightly. Driven like this they're lovely and quite a joy to master, try and drive it as you would a PDK it'll be awful.
Regarding waiting for a V12S manual, they've only been available for a few months and I suspect they will be pretty rare. There are a couple of ex-demo's out there but don't expect a bargain, you're looking at £135k+.
For me seeing as you already have a PDK then I'd be looking for a manual stablemate all day long. How about the non-S V12 Vantage ? A fair selection to choose from and equally as epic as the S.
As you say, only a proper road test will tell you what you need to know. Make sure that road test includes town traffic too though.....and reversing !
As for spec, most out there (S and non) are very good specs, but for me the reversing camera is one of the key items, although it can be retro-fitted fairly easily.
Regarding waiting for a V12S manual, they've only been available for a few months and I suspect they will be pretty rare. There are a couple of ex-demo's out there but don't expect a bargain, you're looking at £135k+.
For me seeing as you already have a PDK then I'd be looking for a manual stablemate all day long. How about the non-S V12 Vantage ? A fair selection to choose from and equally as epic as the S.
As you say, only a proper road test will tell you what you need to know. Make sure that road test includes town traffic too though.....and reversing !
As for spec, most out there (S and non) are very good specs, but for me the reversing camera is one of the key items, although it can be retro-fitted fairly easily.
Edited by Big Ry on Thursday 22 December 14:51
IMO, from the perspective of the driver, in practice using a DSG/dual clutch automated box such as PDK is incredibly close to using a conventional torque converter automatic gearbox whilst a single clutch automated manual such as SS is more akin to a conventional manual, albeit with 2 pedals instead of 3
Having said that, in the latest iteration in the V12VS, it's about as close as anyone has got with a single clutch box to the DSG & auto boxes. That means you don't have to make the same degree of allowance for lifting off the accelerator when changing gears, or have problems moving from standstill on a hill, reversing, etc. I think it would be eminently practical as a DD. Certainly as practical if not more practical than a conventional manual, with very little of the downsides that the earlier SS boxes had.
That said, it is not as quick a gear change as a decent modern DSG and personally, though others will no doubt disagree, I wouldn't ever put it in 'auto' mode. In fact, I know I'm not alone in thinking that in many ways, it would be better if they didn't even have an 'auto' mode, so as not to confuse people (especially the journos) as to what kind of box it is
Put simply, it's a great box but it's not as slick as PDK. I think that's an advantage, but if you don't like changing gears yourself, you might not agree ! As ever, you need to take one for a drive !!!
EDIT: : Looks like me & Big Ry responded at the same time with a pretty much identical view :-)
Having said that, in the latest iteration in the V12VS, it's about as close as anyone has got with a single clutch box to the DSG & auto boxes. That means you don't have to make the same degree of allowance for lifting off the accelerator when changing gears, or have problems moving from standstill on a hill, reversing, etc. I think it would be eminently practical as a DD. Certainly as practical if not more practical than a conventional manual, with very little of the downsides that the earlier SS boxes had.
That said, it is not as quick a gear change as a decent modern DSG and personally, though others will no doubt disagree, I wouldn't ever put it in 'auto' mode. In fact, I know I'm not alone in thinking that in many ways, it would be better if they didn't even have an 'auto' mode, so as not to confuse people (especially the journos) as to what kind of box it is
Put simply, it's a great box but it's not as slick as PDK. I think that's an advantage, but if you don't like changing gears yourself, you might not agree ! As ever, you need to take one for a drive !!!
EDIT: : Looks like me & Big Ry responded at the same time with a pretty much identical view :-)
Having actually lived with the SS3 on a V12S over 8000 miles I would agree in the main with Jonby and Ry.
That said there's a large part of the automated manual that I actually quite like and you do have to think about it.A slight lift of the toes seems to work well on upshifts and in sports mode you can pretty much keep the right foot planted.
I personally dislike the Porsche PDK and the Aston was my first automated box car but I love it.
Whilst it might not be the quickest thing and most up to date it has something that gets under your skin in a very good way.
It wouldn't replace my gen 2 GT3 but that's a real manual box anyway.
Spec is very personal but having had both sports seats previously in an Aston and the lightweights in the V12 I would only ever spec them again - apart from being more comfortable for longer trips ( in my humble ) they also look the part and hold you in place better - I would also go alcantara rather than leather but then I have a slight alcantara fetish - you also don't miss heated seats too much.
You need to drive one but be warned -you'll buy it.
That said there's a large part of the automated manual that I actually quite like and you do have to think about it.A slight lift of the toes seems to work well on upshifts and in sports mode you can pretty much keep the right foot planted.
I personally dislike the Porsche PDK and the Aston was my first automated box car but I love it.
Whilst it might not be the quickest thing and most up to date it has something that gets under your skin in a very good way.
It wouldn't replace my gen 2 GT3 but that's a real manual box anyway.
Spec is very personal but having had both sports seats previously in an Aston and the lightweights in the V12 I would only ever spec them again - apart from being more comfortable for longer trips ( in my humble ) they also look the part and hold you in place better - I would also go alcantara rather than leather but then I have a slight alcantara fetish - you also don't miss heated seats too much.
You need to drive one but be warned -you'll buy it.
^^ Agree with all of the above. A lot of the negative press received IMO is due to expectation that this gearbox is 'automatic' and is meant to go head to head with dual clutch boxes in other cars. If you do not like manual gearboxes and do not drive SSIII with a manual gearbox mindset, you WILL be frustrated and disappointed. In other words, you must WORK at driving; it is not a disconnect brain - pull paddle scenario. If you approach it expecting a manual experience without a clutch pedal, and capable of faster upshifts and better downshifts than mere mortals can manage, you will be happy.
Or go pro and get a good used manual 
I hope longer term the original manual will be the one that prevails. I've driven both variants of the V12S and it's ruined by the gearbox on both occasions - the automated just isn't smooth enough, and the manual gearbox is notchy and un-naturally sprung. Please do try the original V12 M and see what you think.
I hope longer term the original manual will be the one that prevails. I've driven both variants of the V12S and it's ruined by the gearbox on both occasions - the automated just isn't smooth enough, and the manual gearbox is notchy and un-naturally sprung. Please do try the original V12 M and see what you think. I can speak from an V8VS SS2 perspective but with the same twin-plate clutch as the SS3. Clearly the 'God of Torque' smiles on the V12VS & therefore for a DD there's less cog swapping to be done, but the gearbox is excellent in regular usage.
I agree wholeheartedly regarding the D button, it should never have been added to the spec. AM created a rod that motoring hacks have used to beat it with since the very start!
I agree wholeheartedly regarding the D button, it should never have been added to the spec. AM created a rod that motoring hacks have used to beat it with since the very start!
I am now in month 13 of my V12VSR and it is my favourite car bar none.
I change my cars within the year usually but have no plans at all of changing this V12S.
The gearbox in the V12S is wonderful wonderful wonderful and I just don't understand why anyone would prefer a twin clutch gbox that are so efficient you might as well just leave them in auto.
Soulless and boring even if technically brilliant.
If you find yourself in the North west and want a demo PM me and i will take you out and you can see how the box responds when you've got used to it.
Edited by Flugplatz on Saturday 24th December 22:03
^^^ This
I have been in my V12VS for 10 months now and I find SS3 such an engaging gearbox to drive. You have to think about changing gear. A slight curl of the toes on change up is all that is needed to get a smooth change. Much more engaging than the Porsche PDK that I had in my 997 turbo. I found it technically brilliant but boring. For me it scores over a manual in everyday driving too. My opinion of course other opinions are available. In the real world my left leg gets numb with manuals with the constant changing and depressing of the clutch. The SS3 is a great box that kind of fits between a true manual and an auto.
Funnily I took a family member out in it today and was explaining how it is an automated manual not an auto. She didn't get it...probably my explanation more than any thing to be fair though.
If you find yourself in Newport Pagnell drop me a PM and I will be happy to take you out in it.
As others have said if you drive a V12 in any guide be warned...you'll buy one!
I have been in my V12VS for 10 months now and I find SS3 such an engaging gearbox to drive. You have to think about changing gear. A slight curl of the toes on change up is all that is needed to get a smooth change. Much more engaging than the Porsche PDK that I had in my 997 turbo. I found it technically brilliant but boring. For me it scores over a manual in everyday driving too. My opinion of course other opinions are available. In the real world my left leg gets numb with manuals with the constant changing and depressing of the clutch. The SS3 is a great box that kind of fits between a true manual and an auto.
Funnily I took a family member out in it today and was explaining how it is an automated manual not an auto. She didn't get it...probably my explanation more than any thing to be fair though.
If you find yourself in Newport Pagnell drop me a PM and I will be happy to take you out in it.
As others have said if you drive a V12 in any guide be warned...you'll buy one!
Edited by FrankieV12VS on Thursday 22 December 18:15
I am lucky enough the have the original V12VR and it was joined by our V12VSR some 18 months ago. I love them both but if pushed it is the S that will choose to go out in. As with the others I drive it as a manual and love the fact that it feels like a manual but you don't have to take your hands off the wheel to change gear.
Just do not use "Drive". It amazes me that journalists are not briefed properly how to drive the cars and get the best out of them. They appear not to be because they seldom report on the wonderful car that I know.
I have driven pdk's before and can't really see the difference between them and a full automatic to be frank.
Best advice is get in one and drive it. Agree on the lightweights being essential - they define the car - but dealers seldom seem to spec them on their demonstrators which is a shame. They are so much better than the standard sports seats.
Could luck finding one - have fun.
Just do not use "Drive". It amazes me that journalists are not briefed properly how to drive the cars and get the best out of them. They appear not to be because they seldom report on the wonderful car that I know.
I have driven pdk's before and can't really see the difference between them and a full automatic to be frank.
Best advice is get in one and drive it. Agree on the lightweights being essential - they define the car - but dealers seldom seem to spec them on their demonstrators which is a shame. They are so much better than the standard sports seats.
Could luck finding one - have fun.
I got used to paddle shifts on Lambo Gallardos and have to say they took some time getting used to.
But the SS3 on my V12S Roadster really is awesomely lovely. As other people have said, you just have to get your head around the fact that it's a manual car but you change gear whenever you like by flipping a paddle - which is soooo much easier and quicker than doing it with a gearstick! You also have the added advantage of being able to let it change back 'automatically' as you decelerate without having to do a thing.
Each to their own and I'm sure the new 7 speed manual will have its fans but I just say to myself 'why would I'!? The only plus is that most of the new manuals seem to be coming out of the factory with alcantara dashes that look lovely.
But SS3 is a definite, big plus for V12S as a vehicle. Not a weak point. IMHO
But the SS3 on my V12S Roadster really is awesomely lovely. As other people have said, you just have to get your head around the fact that it's a manual car but you change gear whenever you like by flipping a paddle - which is soooo much easier and quicker than doing it with a gearstick! You also have the added advantage of being able to let it change back 'automatically' as you decelerate without having to do a thing.
Each to their own and I'm sure the new 7 speed manual will have its fans but I just say to myself 'why would I'!? The only plus is that most of the new manuals seem to be coming out of the factory with alcantara dashes that look lovely.
But SS3 is a definite, big plus for V12S as a vehicle. Not a weak point. IMHO
Agree totally with all the positive comments above. As for AMI, I believe the major difference is that the latest version is full of bugs:-). But if You care about the 'entertainment system' when behind the wheel in a V12S, maybe You are in the wrong car? (My personal opinion of course!)
I beg to differ. The V12 Vantage S should have had a manual to begin with as the previous V12 Vantage. I think the Sport Shift is totally behind the curve and should never have been in the car. It is slow and cluncky and cannot be compared to a PDK box at all. The PDK in my 991 GT3 RS is absolutely magnificent and to say that you cannot feel the difference between an automatic and a pdk can only be because you have never driven a pdk equipped car such as the RS. The gearchanges are mindboggling fast and downshifts are super sharp. I do like manual cars better but the Sportshift is the V12V weakest link by a mile. There is a reson why the prices of a 5 year old V12V and a year old S are almost the same.
hornbaek said:
I beg to differ. The V12 Vantage S should have had a manual to begin with as the previous V12 Vantage. I think the Sport Shift is totally behind the curve and should never have been in the car. It is slow and cluncky and cannot be compared to a PDK box at all. The PDK in my 991 GT3 RS is absolutely magnificent and to say that you cannot feel the difference between an automatic and a pdk can only be because you have never driven a pdk equipped car such as the RS. The gearchanges are mindboggling fast and downshifts are super sharp. I do like manual cars better but the Sportshift is the V12V weakest link by a mile. There is a reson why the prices of a 5 year old V12V and a year old S are almost the same.
Would have to agree that the two can't be compared. One makes you want to go to sleep the other doesn't.At least that my thoughts when comparing the many miles I have driven PDK equipped Cayman S & 991 C4S compared to V8S SSII & V12S SSIII.
Not driven the V12 manual but in both the V8 manuals I have driven I have found the shift to be very uncomfortable.
It isn't that it is a bad box but ergonomically just doesn't work for me.
ETA
Just watched the video linked to above and notice that the interior where your left elbow sits is different to the two other manuals I have driven. As that is the area that hasn't worked for me on those two cars I may have to revisit the manual.
Edited by J12KJR on Friday 23 December 07:24
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