Head studs... may be they do need re-torquing.... !!
Discussion
Messing with the car earlier and just thought I’d check the torque on the head studs... I re-built the engine about 4/5K ago and I know people say you don’t need to re-torque... but thought I’d give it a try....
When I built the engine, I torque to 70 LB/FT using all the correct lube etc... So set the wrench to 60 and tried the centre nuts... and guess what.. they moved!.... I’d say they were relaxed off to about 55 LBS FT or so but have done one head (drivers side) .. so the other bank is still to do.
I used a top quality head gasket from John Eales... and I don’t think the wrench has been used since so no difference there...
I know it’s a PITA job, but may be worth a check if you too have head studs...
When I built the engine, I torque to 70 LB/FT using all the correct lube etc... So set the wrench to 60 and tried the centre nuts... and guess what.. they moved!.... I’d say they were relaxed off to about 55 LBS FT or so but have done one head (drivers side) .. so the other bank is still to do.
I used a top quality head gasket from John Eales... and I don’t think the wrench has been used since so no difference there...
I know it’s a PITA job, but may be worth a check if you too have head studs...
Yep same here 
I developed a small oil weep from between the heads and block at the front behind the alternator after a few thousand miles post full rebuild with a decked block and flat heads about 18 months ago this was using ARP and Elring HG's I had my suspicions concerning the cause so indexed the nuts with a tyre pen backed off and re-torqued and got a similar result to yourself 
not surprising really when the Elrings are designed to be used with yield/stretch bolts and ARP studs are not 
no big deal glad I did it and the weep stopped
I developed a small oil weep from between the heads and block at the front behind the alternator after a few thousand miles post full rebuild with a decked block and flat heads about 18 months ago this was using ARP and Elring HG's I had my suspicions concerning the cause so indexed the nuts with a tyre pen backed off and re-torqued and got a similar result to yourself not surprising really when the Elrings are designed to be used with yield/stretch bolts and ARP studs are not no big deal glad I did it and the weep stopped the gaskets I bought were supposed to be for the ARP's but I guess anything will relax over time / heat cycles.
Interesting you backed the nuts off first... I would have thought this applied more to bolts and may be yield bolts?... I just went straight on and they all appeared to move a similar amount.... went round it about 3 times at 73 just to make sure..... the lower back one is a real sod to get on now the engine is in....
Interesting you backed the nuts off first... I would have thought this applied more to bolts and may be yield bolts?... I just went straight on and they all appeared to move a similar amount.... went round it about 3 times at 73 just to make sure..... the lower back one is a real sod to get on now the engine is in....
Edited by TVR Beaver on Sunday 1st January 20:36
TVR Beaver said:
the gaskets I bought were supposed to be for the ARP's but I guess anything will relax over time / heat cycles.
Interesting you backed the nuts off first... I just went straight on and they all appeared to move a similar amount.... went round it about 3 times at 73 just to make sure..... the lower back one is a real sod to get on now the engine is in....
The backing off re-distributed the ARP lube more than anything else and I just done one at a time Interesting you backed the nuts off first... I just went straight on and they all appeared to move a similar amount.... went round it about 3 times at 73 just to make sure..... the lower back one is a real sod to get on now the engine is in....
back in the day with older Fords X Flows Essex motors I always re-torqued HG's and with the RV8 things move around more like you say expand and contract at a higher rate being an all alloy construction so I wasn't too surprised just presumed I would get away with it (poor judgment) if it wasnt for the weep I would never have known so soon Did you put more lube on... or assume some still remains from when you initialy did it?...
I'm never sure about backing off... I can see it where you need to 'crack' the friction on a long bolt or somthing... but on a nut... does it matter.... I'll be thinking about this all night now
Anyway... 73 LBS / ft is 73 LBS / ft and especialy going round it 3 times it should be okay.... who knows how they relax off... I'm sure this is not even.
Its not a nice job to do with the exhaust manifolds etc... but I think it's more than needed... as you say, the next time you know is when it's blown... and then you start all over again!....
I'm never sure about backing off... I can see it where you need to 'crack' the friction on a long bolt or somthing... but on a nut... does it matter.... I'll be thinking about this all night now
Anyway... 73 LBS / ft is 73 LBS / ft and especialy going round it 3 times it should be okay.... who knows how they relax off... I'm sure this is not even.
Its not a nice job to do with the exhaust manifolds etc... but I think it's more than needed... as you say, the next time you know is when it's blown... and then you start all over again!....
TVR Beaver said:
Did you put more lube on... or assume some still remains from when you initialy did it?...
I'm never sure about backing off... I can see it where you need to 'crack' the friction on a long bolt or somthing... but on a nut... does it matter.... I'll be thinking about this all night now
Anyway... 73 LBS / ft is 73 LBS / ft and especialy going round it 3 times it should be okay.... who knows how they relax off... I'm sure this is not even.
Its not a nice job to do with the exhaust manifolds etc... but I think it's more than needed... as you say, the next time you know is when it's blown... and then you start all over again!....
You wont have issues with your method Beaver I'm never sure about backing off... I can see it where you need to 'crack' the friction on a long bolt or somthing... but on a nut... does it matter.... I'll be thinking about this all night now
Anyway... 73 LBS / ft is 73 LBS / ft and especialy going round it 3 times it should be okay.... who knows how they relax off... I'm sure this is not even.
Its not a nice job to do with the exhaust manifolds etc... but I think it's more than needed... as you say, the next time you know is when it's blown... and then you start all over again!....
and yes my fasteners even over 2 years on still have ARP lube sweating from the studs & nuts 7k miles since built, and yeh removing manifolds was a pain but I really dont mind done too many manifold jobs on these cars so a dab hand now 
I suppose you should take them off and re-lube maybe?.... Don't recall using anything special in the first place TBH?... they sit in engine oil so will be well drenched I guess...
Wish I'd done the slots in the bottom holes now on the manifolds... would make life easier.... funny but I could not get the drivers side manifold out this time but I didn't remove all the metal coolant pipes so guess thats why...
Head two tomorrow.....
Wish I'd done the slots in the bottom holes now on the manifolds... would make life easier.... funny but I could not get the drivers side manifold out this time but I didn't remove all the metal coolant pipes so guess thats why...
Head two tomorrow.....
TVR Beaver said:
I suppose you should take them off and re-lube maybe?.... Don't recall using anything special in the first place TBH?... they sit in engine oil so will be well drenched I guess...
Wish I'd done the slots in the bottom holes now on the manifolds... would make life easier.... funny but I could not get the drivers side manifold out this time but I didn't remove all the metal coolant pipes so guess thats why...
Head two tomorrow.....
Not slotted the manifolds ... yet Wish I'd done the slots in the bottom holes now on the manifolds... would make life easier.... funny but I could not get the drivers side manifold out this time but I didn't remove all the metal coolant pipes so guess thats why...
Head two tomorrow.....
I no longer have the along side RC heater pipes I relocated under the intake man when I did the engine 
Well for me.. it's the head studs every time.. even if you do have to re-torque (this will only need doing once)..... You can re-use them... and it's a lot less trauma on the full system.
Have you ever fitted a stretch bolt ?
and remember its going into a Ali block.... checked the area around the hole in the block where stretch bolts have been fitted.. you will find they are raised a bit where the bolt has deformed the block (pulled out)... there is also some thoughts that the 'pulling out' in the Ali block could lead to cracking behind the liners?..
But if you are fitting studs, make sure they go the full depth of the thread in the block.. I think some ARP ones were 10mm short or so...
Have you ever fitted a stretch bolt ?
and remember its going into a Ali block.... checked the area around the hole in the block where stretch bolts have been fitted.. you will find they are raised a bit where the bolt has deformed the block (pulled out)... there is also some thoughts that the 'pulling out' in the Ali block could lead to cracking behind the liners?.. But if you are fitting studs, make sure they go the full depth of the thread in the block.. I think some ARP ones were 10mm short or so...
TVR Beaver said:
Well for me.. it's the head studs every time.. even if you do have to re-torque (this will only need doing once)..... You can re-use them... and it's a lot less trauma on the full system.
Have you ever fitted a stretch bolt ? and remember its going into a Ali block.... checked the area around the hole in the block where stretch bolts have been fitted.. you will find they are raised a bit where the bolt has deformed the block (pulled out)... there is also some thoughts that the 'pulling out' in the Ali block could lead to cracking behind the liners?..
But if you are fitting studs, make sure they go the full depth of the thread in the block.. I think some ARP ones were 10mm short or so...
This ^ got to agree again Have you ever fitted a stretch bolt ?
and remember its going into a Ali block.... checked the area around the hole in the block where stretch bolts have been fitted.. you will find they are raised a bit where the bolt has deformed the block (pulled out)... there is also some thoughts that the 'pulling out' in the Ali block could lead to cracking behind the liners?.. But if you are fitting studs, make sure they go the full depth of the thread in the block.. I think some ARP ones were 10mm short or so...
MPO said:
So....... should we really be using head studs (ARP) that slacken off over time needing regular checks and risk blown head gaskets if left unchecked or should we have more faith in Stretch bolts?
MPO
Happy New year GlynMPO
I've used stretch bolts in the past on late heads without any issues and I'd use them again.
Steve
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