E46 head gasket failure
Discussion
My friend has a 330i e46 and there is a suspect head gasket failure, as it is older car he is wondering whether it would be worth doing or just scrapping the car, so I said Id ask you guys what the typical labour time was for this job for someone who knows what they are doing, so he could calculate the cost depending where he took it I suppose as garage rates do vary. I suppose if you intend to keep the car for a long time after then it way be worth it as sometimes its better the devil you know with cars. Any ideas please? cheers!!
More things to consider. Does he like the car? Can he easily replace it? Can he get quotes for just labour and get parts him self? does he have friends that will do it with him? E.T.C. if its in good condition in a good spec i'd be inclined to fix it. It depends on if he can be arsed
It is a tricky situation a HG on a BMW. Depending on the how bad the failure is and if the engine has been allowed to get very hot the alloy blocks & heads can warp beyond saving point.
A quick glance on EBay and you can buy whole 3.0l engines for anywhere between £300-600 and then spend another £500 + to get it swapped. Then you'd be looking at around £1k to get the car running again which means If the chaps 330i is in good condition/good spec it should still be worth £2-4k.
When the HG went on one of my old BMWs I found it was cheaper to buy a second hand engine complete and swap the whole thing as it was easier than getting a HG kit/head skim/engine rebuild and less time consuming.
Or sell the car with a knackered HG for barely above scrap value , you may get lucky and someone will still pay £200-500 for the car as it is.
Actually, have you even determined that the HG has failed, if it's overheating it could still be a water pump/ thermostat/radiator/ fan related issue.
A quick glance on EBay and you can buy whole 3.0l engines for anywhere between £300-600 and then spend another £500 + to get it swapped. Then you'd be looking at around £1k to get the car running again which means If the chaps 330i is in good condition/good spec it should still be worth £2-4k.
When the HG went on one of my old BMWs I found it was cheaper to buy a second hand engine complete and swap the whole thing as it was easier than getting a HG kit/head skim/engine rebuild and less time consuming.
Or sell the car with a knackered HG for barely above scrap value , you may get lucky and someone will still pay £200-500 for the car as it is.
Actually, have you even determined that the HG has failed, if it's overheating it could still be a water pump/ thermostat/radiator/ fan related issue.
Ive thought about engine swaps myself and I'd think it would be much more than £500 quid for a replacement as I know it to be a 12-13 hour job and the cheapest 330 engine I've seen with around 100k on the clock is about 500+ quid, never seen any as a realistic replacement for no where near as cheap as £300, surely to replace the head gasket isn't that long a job is it? I was just after a rough estimate of time, just to help give that option if it was feasible, maybe if it is a pain to do he can look at other options, I was just curious to know, to help give him that choice. I think he is keen to keep the car if it was a realistic cost that's all. then he can decide himself. any way, he could get a replacement engine and who is to say that wont bugger up in a few weeks or so.
Changing a head gasket on these is not a simple job, it can turn nasty if the head or block have warped or the threads in the block are damaged. I would at least helicoil the threads and check the mating faces very carefully before rebuilding.
But: - I would have to be 100% sure the head gasket was the culprit before I picked up a spanner.
Do a sniff test and a cooling system pressure test first, these are cheap to do and don't take long.
If the gasket is leaking then you could spend £10 on a dose of K-seal, this can act like a miracle cure on occasion.
But: - I would have to be 100% sure the head gasket was the culprit before I picked up a spanner.
Do a sniff test and a cooling system pressure test first, these are cheap to do and don't take long.
If the gasket is leaking then you could spend £10 on a dose of K-seal, this can act like a miracle cure on occasion.
Jakg said:
AutoData has it ("Cylinder head & gasket") as a 11.1 hour job. At £40+VAT per hour that's £530.
So it is nearly as big a job as an engine swap then? That surprises me, id have said around 6-7 hours which would have made it a realistic choice, but not if it is that big a job, sounds like an engine swap could be a sensible option as there could be issues changing a gasket, I can go back and give him this feedback now and see what he says. cheers for the help.I was considering a 3.0 engine swap in my compact as the 2.5 is the biggest engine fitted and after the research I done it would be a straight swap in there too as everything appears to be compatible and I priced it up to be just over a grand, so that would be a 40hp gain, however I'd then be into expensive modified car insurance so shelved the idea
kev b said:
This discussion is theoretical until HGF is cofirmed, why does he suspect HGF, what are the symptoms?
Get a sniff test done,
He didn't say the symptoms, I just said I'd do some research for him and I'll pass the info on and see what he says. Personally I'd go for an engine swap if actually doing the gasket isn't much cheaper and could have problems too. Very useful tips guys as usual, thanksGet a sniff test done,
Andy70 said:
So it is nearly as big a job as an engine swap then? That surprises me, id have said around 6-7 hours which would have made it a realistic choice, but not if it is that big a job, sounds like an engine swap could be a sensible option as there could be issues changing a gasket, I can go back and give him this feedback now and see what he says. cheers for the help.
I was considering a 3.0 engine swap in my compact.
Having swapped a couple of BMW engines it is definitely easier to remove a whole engine , swap a few ancillary items, have good access to do any maintenance an then chuck the new engine ready assembled. However there is one big caveat, that is knowing that the replacement engine is GOOD and you haven't been stitched up with a duffer!I was considering a 3.0 engine swap in my compact.
Stripping the head off is a bit of a pain as you spend so long leaning over the sodding engine and it's harder doing checks on the block with it still in the bay so you end up taking that out as well creating more messy work!
Oh on the subject of Compacts, a 3.0 compact is very interesting!!! a .3.0 combined with the 325ti gearbox/diff would be pretty dam good and a lot faster than the 40hp increase would suggest!!
aka_kerrly said:
Having swapped a couple of BMW engines it is definitely easier to remove a whole engine , swap a few ancillary items, have good access to do any maintenance an then chuck the new engine ready assembled. However there is one big caveat, that is knowing that the replacement engine is GOOD and you haven't been stitched up with a duffer!
Stripping the head off is a bit of a pain as you spend so long leaning over the sodding engine and it's harder doing checks on the block with it still in the bay so you end up taking that out as well creating more messy work!
Oh on the subject of Compacts, a 3.0 compact is very interesting!!! a .3.0 combined with the 325ti gearbox/diff would be pretty dam good and a lot faster than the 40hp increase would suggest!!
Bloody hell, you got me thinking about it again now, as it happens there is a 3.0 engine on ebay at the moment with only 84 k on the clock for £650, best get in there before my mate does lolStripping the head off is a bit of a pain as you spend so long leaning over the sodding engine and it's harder doing checks on the block with it still in the bay so you end up taking that out as well creating more messy work!
Oh on the subject of Compacts, a 3.0 compact is very interesting!!! a .3.0 combined with the 325ti gearbox/diff would be pretty dam good and a lot faster than the 40hp increase would suggest!!
CB 987 said:
I had the headgasket done on my old E46 330i, approx 3 years ago. It went approx 10 days after buying it. I had a few extra bits replaced at the same time such as the thermostat and CCV. The total bill was around £950 in VAT. Mine was done by Forza West in Caldicot.
bummer ten days after buying it, the price is dangerously close to a different engine isn't it? But there is no guarantee the new one would be any good. I feel that most scrap yards do sell them in good faith, after reading loads of ads for them on ebay most do state that was 'checked before removal', or 'its still in the car and be heard running' etc etc and offer a warranty, but that wont stop it going ten days later and you are still into paying to take it out and send it backI've done a few of these, and the autodata time of 11 hours is very low (for me). If the engine has been good until now, then I would tend to do the head rather than replace the engine. You will need to budget for a new rad, pump and various other bits and bobs. The vanos is a bit of a t
t to set back up. (PM me if you want the timing tools - it's impossible without)
I have seen BMW heads crack before now, giving the impression of gasket failure.
Whenever I've done the HG, I've always opened out the water channels on the HG, as they have always looked too small to me (and clearly I know better than BMW), no problems yet.
t to set back up. (PM me if you want the timing tools - it's impossible without)I have seen BMW heads crack before now, giving the impression of gasket failure.
Whenever I've done the HG, I've always opened out the water channels on the HG, as they have always looked too small to me (and clearly I know better than BMW), no problems yet.
bearman68 said:
I've done a few of these, and the autodata time of 11 hours is very low (for me). If the engine has been good until now, then I would tend to do the head rather than replace the engine. You will need to budget for a new rad, pump and various other bits and bobs. The vanos is a bit of a tt to set back up. (PM me if you want the timing tools - it's impossible without)
I have seen BMW heads crack before now, giving the impression of gasket failure.
Whenever I've done the HG, I've always opened out the water channels on the HG, as they have always looked too small to me (and clearly I know better than BMW), no problems yet.
Thanks for the offer, but I wont be going anywhere near that myself, Its something i've always wished I could do, but never got into unfortunately, I'd love to be able to build and fit an engine in the car of my choice, but not to be, I'll stick to my welding etct to set back up. (PM me if you want the timing tools - it's impossible without)I have seen BMW heads crack before now, giving the impression of gasket failure.
Whenever I've done the HG, I've always opened out the water channels on the HG, as they have always looked too small to me (and clearly I know better than BMW), no problems yet.
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