Argument re: mobile phone use while driving
Discussion
Hi all, I've been having an argument with a friend regarding the illegality (or not?) of using a mobile phone while stationary in a traffic jam or traffic lights. The twist is my friend claims you can't be done for it if you have start/Stop, as technically you are parked, with the engine off and the law says this is an acceptable circumstance to use a phone/handheld device.
I say you are still in charge of a vehicle on the highway and therefore subject to the handheld device rules, as you are clearly not parked by any common sense rationale. Is this a legal loophole or is it quite clear?
I say you are still in charge of a vehicle on the highway and therefore subject to the handheld device rules, as you are clearly not parked by any common sense rationale. Is this a legal loophole or is it quite clear?
Engine on or off, illegal or not, being stationary in traffic carries zero danger and therefore should not be punishable. Inconsiderate if not prepared when the traffic moves off, yes, but that seems to be a price that society is prepared to pay for being able to make the odd call while driving. I don't use a mobile while in motion.
Speed Badger said:
Hi all, I've been having an argument with a friend regarding the illegality (or not?) of using a mobile phone while stationary in a traffic jam or traffic lights. The twist is my friend claims you can't be done for it if you have start/Stop, as technically you are parked driving, with the engine off and the law says this is an acceptable circumstance to use a phone/handheld device.
I say you are still in charge of a vehicle on the highway and therefore subject to the handheld device rules, as you are clearly not parked by any common sense rationale. Is this a legal loophole or is it quite clear?
Corrected that for you.I say you are still in charge of a vehicle on the highway and therefore subject to the handheld device rules, as you are clearly not parked by any common sense rationale. Is this a legal loophole or is it quite clear?
I think your friend would be dissappointed.
Hugo a Gogo said:
Atomic12C said:
If the key is in the ignition I think I'm correct in saying you are "in charge" of the vehicle.
It doesn't matter if the engine is on or off.
I'm sure to be corrected if wrong.
what about keyless systems?It doesn't matter if the engine is on or off.
I'm sure to be corrected if wrong.
"It’s illegal to use a hand-held phone or similar device while driving, or riding a motorcycle.
The rules are the same if you’re stopped at traffic lights or queuing in traffic.
It’s also illegal to use a hand-held phone or similar device when supervising a learner driver or rider.
You must stay in full control of your vehicle at all times. The police can stop you if they think you’re not in control because you’re distracted. This includes if you’re using devices like your sat nav or car radio.
When you can use a phone in your vehicle
If you’re the driver, you can only use your phone in a vehicle if you:
1. need to call 999 or 112 in an emergency and it’s unsafe or impractical to stop
2. are safely parked"
"Parking (rules 239 to 247)
Rule 239
Use off-street parking areas, or bays marked out with white lines on the road as parking places, wherever possible. If you have to stop on the roadside:
•do not park facing against the traffic flow
•stop as close as you can to the side
•do not stop too close to a vehicle displaying a Blue Badge: remember, the occupant may need more room to get in or out
•you MUST switch off the engine, headlights and fog lights
•you MUST apply the handbrake before leaving the vehicle
•you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic
•it is safer for your passengers (especially children) to get out of the vehicle on the side next to the kerb
•put all valuables out of sight and make sure your vehicle is secure
•lock your vehicle."
What happens if stopped, engine off but lights still on
TX.
Hugo a Gogo said:
what about keyless systems?
Keyless systems should be banned I tell thee !
I'm off to write a letter to parliament.
[honestly, I guess its similar to "drunk in charge", whereby its likely that just possessing the key whilst in the vehicle could count as "being in charge" of the vehicle] - but application and policing of the law is always the challenge.
edit to add - having read the reply above, it would seem being 'parked' is the important element. So probably not like "drunk in charge".
Edited by Atomic12C on Tuesday 3rd January 14:48
Terminator X said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
Atomic12C said:
If the key is in the ignition I think I'm correct in saying you are "in charge" of the vehicle.
It doesn't matter if the engine is on or off.
I'm sure to be corrected if wrong.
what about keyless systems?It doesn't matter if the engine is on or off.
I'm sure to be corrected if wrong.
"It’s illegal to use a hand-held phone or similar device while driving, or riding a motorcycle.
The rules are the same if you’re stopped at traffic lights or queuing in traffic.
It’s also illegal to use a hand-held phone or similar device when supervising a learner driver or rider.
You must stay in full control of your vehicle at all times. The police can stop you if they think you’re not in control because you’re distracted. This includes if you’re using devices like your sat nav or car radio.
When you can use a phone in your vehicle
If you’re the driver, you can only use your phone in a vehicle if you:
1. need to call 999 or 112 in an emergency and it’s unsafe or impractical to stop
2. are safely parked"
"Parking (rules 239 to 247)
Rule 239
Use off-street parking areas, or bays marked out with white lines on the road as parking places, wherever possible. If you have to stop on the roadside:
•do not park facing against the traffic flow
•stop as close as you can to the side
•do not stop too close to a vehicle displaying a Blue Badge: remember, the occupant may need more room to get in or out
•you MUST switch off the engine, headlights and fog lights
•you MUST apply the handbrake before leaving the vehicle
•you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic
•it is safer for your passengers (especially children) to get out of the vehicle on the side next to the kerb
•put all valuables out of sight and make sure your vehicle is secure
•lock your vehicle."
What happens if stopped, engine off but lights still on
TX.
It is illegal to hold the phone. It is not illegal to use it.
BertBert said:
speedking31 said:
being stationary in traffic carries zero danger and therefore should not be punishable
Really? So you have a snooze at the lights do you? Not interested at all in the hazards around you?Terminator X said:
"Parking (rules 239 to 247)
Rule 239
Use off-street parking areas, or bays marked out with white lines on the road as parking places, wherever possible. If you have to stop on the roadside:
•do not park facing against the traffic flow
•stop as close as you can to the side
•do not stop too close to a vehicle displaying a Blue Badge: remember, the occupant may need more room to get in or out
•you MUST switch off the engine, headlights and fog lights
•you MUST apply the handbrake before leaving the vehicle
•you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic
•it is safer for your passengers (especially children) to get out of the vehicle on the side next to the kerb
•put all valuables out of sight and make sure your vehicle is secure
•lock your vehicle."
What happens if stopped, engine off but lights still on
TX.
On a 40 mph unlit road, you should display lights - esp if you're in an HGV where it's required to park with lights!Rule 239
Use off-street parking areas, or bays marked out with white lines on the road as parking places, wherever possible. If you have to stop on the roadside:
•do not park facing against the traffic flow
•stop as close as you can to the side
•do not stop too close to a vehicle displaying a Blue Badge: remember, the occupant may need more room to get in or out
•you MUST switch off the engine, headlights and fog lights
•you MUST apply the handbrake before leaving the vehicle
•you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic
•it is safer for your passengers (especially children) to get out of the vehicle on the side next to the kerb
•put all valuables out of sight and make sure your vehicle is secure
•lock your vehicle."
What happens if stopped, engine off but lights still on
TX.
Ambiguous law again. Only the UK can do this....... can they?
Edited by grumpyscot on Tuesday 3rd January 15:45
speedking31 said:
BertBert said:
speedking31 said:
being stationary in traffic carries zero danger and therefore should not be punishable
Really? So you have a snooze at the lights do you? Not interested at all in the hazards around you?surveyor said:
Terminator X said:
Afaik it's a simple summary of something much longer. Surely we all appreciate the "holding" offence vs handsfree?
TX.
Would be nice to read something accurate though don't you think. Too much implication ends up simply incorrect.TX.
You can clearly see the offence is "using" a hand-held device while holding it not just "holding".
The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
Mobile telephones
110.
—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using—
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
(2) No person shall cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road
while that other person is using—
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
(3) No person shall supervise a holder of a provisional licence if the person supervising
is using—
(a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4),
at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road.
(4) A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a
two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting
and receiving data.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff