G30 discounts already over 20%

[335d]

From Bimmerpost it seems that discounts on the 530d xDrive are now about 21% before the first car is even delivered:

http://www.broker4cars.co.uk/Buy/New_Car.jsp?selec...

Broadspeed are offering some reasonable discounts too:

https://broadspeed.com/new_cars/BMW/5-Series/Choos...

[Fox-]

Why dont they just change the list prices rather than messing arund like this all the time - so thats a sub £40k car that will be taxed like a £40k+ car at £500 a year for 5 years if delivered after April..

[Toltec]

Fox- said:

Why dont they just change the list prices rather than messing arund like this all the time - so thats a sub £40k car that will be taxed like a £40k+ car at £500 a year for 5 years if delivered after April..

The perceived value at three years old will be based on the full price rather than the reduced price?

I noticed that a 228i is £5K less than a M240i, but the latter gets an extra £3K of discount so it would make taking the 228i a difficult choice...

[gizlaroc]

Toltec said:

The perceived value at three years old will be based on the full price rather than the reduced price?

No perceived value is based on what someone can be in one for when you trade it in.
If 21% is available from new, think what it will be in 3 years when the LCI is about to be released, 30% plus?

So no doubt the £229 lease deals once more, at that point who cheap will a 3 year old 36k mile car have to be to stop someone buying new?

I have said it time and time again, the inflated list prices and huge discounts are really not helping the market at all, you feel great for a few months after your deal, until the reality of what it really means sinks in.



I am hoping the new £40k tax brackets might get them to start looking at things a little closer.

[Fox-]

gizlaroc said:

So no doubt the £229 lease deals once more, at that point who cheap will a 3 year old 36k mile car have to be to stop someone buying new?

The bit I don't understand is that contrary to all sensible laws of supply and demand the cheap 3 year old 36k mile F10's never seemed to appear. Heck even now if you want a 2014 6 cylinder M Sport you still need to be the wrong side of £20k. Which for a car which was available for £34k after discounts seems insane. I gave up trying to understand it. The absolute cheapest 3 year old/36k mile non-crap 530d M Sport on the AUC site is £24k from Stratstone. And it's only the impending G30 that has pushed them down there, when I bought my first F10 a 3 year old M Sport was almost 30 grand, hence ending up in an SE. Just bonkers money.

[335d]

Fox- said:

Why dont they just change the list prices rather than messing arund like this all the time - so thats a sub £40k car that will be taxed like a £40k+ car at £500 a year for 5 years if delivered after April..

I agree, it is very annoying to have to pay the extra £1500 ish due to this policy of fantasy list prices. Presumably there must be enough people out there who think that a 5% discount, a tank of fuel and a bunch of flowers from that chap in a shiny suit is a good deal.

[CSK423]

Toltec said:

The perceived value at three years old will be based on the full price rather than the reduced price?

I noticed that a 228i is £5K less than a M240i, but the latter gets an extra £3K of discount so it would make taking the 228i a difficult choice...

I've found this across the BMW range, a recent example is the 440i GC £35k v the new 540i xdrive £39k and if financing the monthly is something along the lines of £470 for the 440i and £490 for the 540i x when putting in a £3k deposit. The GFV being less of a reduction from new on the 5.

I looked at the 120d x drive and walked out with a M135i for a similar reason.

[Sheepshanks]

335d said:

I agree, it is very annoying to have to pay the extra £1500 ish due to this policy of fantasy list prices. Presumably there must be enough people out there who think that a 5% discount, a tank of fuel and a bunch of flowers from that chap in a shiny suit is a good deal.

If they dropped the list pricing it wouldn't be to the current heavily discounted levels. So overall you'd likely end up paying more even allowing for the extra road tax as you're currently being subsidised by those people happy with 5% off.

[Sheepshanks]

Fox- said:

The absolute cheapest 3 year old/36k mile non-crap 530d M Sport on the AUC site is £24k from Stratstone.

I suppose they'll have bought that near £20K though.

Used pricing on everything up to 3yrs old vs discounted new has seemed bonkers for ages though - on all makes that heavily discount, not just BMW. It's even worse for those using finance as new generally has subsidised rates.

[gizlaroc]

Hardly subsidised, just about everyone is lending at the 2.9-3.5% rate, apart from car dealers who are charging 5-7% on new and 10-13% on used.


PCP on used is a massive scam at the moment imho.

[Sheepshanks]

gizlaroc said:

Hardly subsidised, just about everyone is lending at the 2.9-3.5% rate, apart from car dealers who are charging 5-7% on new and 10-13% on used.


PCP on used is a massive scam at the moment imho.

Well, I meant subsidised vs used.

As I know you're aware, you can take advantage of this by lapping up the dealer's rate and have him turn himself inside out to get you to buy. Then withdraw from their finance. It's a pain but again you're gaining from it as other people are prepared to pay more.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Thursday 5th January 11:33

[gizlaroc]

I have got a real bee in my bonnet about PCP deals at the moment, they are tending to charge as much as the GFV in interest. It is a complete con.

[XMT]

I wonder if its actually possible to spec the car up to say 60k and get it for 40-41k. I have seen a few discount sites get it to 45k but not 40-41k

Thats a 530d X drive with a few options (20k!)

[Fox-]

Sheepshanks said:

I suppose they'll have bought that near £20K though.

Used pricing on everything up to 3yrs old vs discounted new has seemed bonkers for ages though - on all makes that heavily discount, not just BMW. It's even worse for those using finance as new generally has subsidised rates.

It's really annoying for those us who prefer to buy used than new and don't really do PCP's etc. I spent 6 months trying to buy a good 3 year old 530d and eventually just gave up and bought a 1 year old one for only a couple of grand more. It was bonkers how bad value the 3-4 year old cars were. They even gave me ridiculous amounts of money for my nearly 7 year old SE (Well actually in-line with trade book, but it seemed like loads for a 7 year old car) and then appeared to sell it on for almost 17k! Insane values for really quite old cars.

I remember when I bought my 5 year old E39 530i for £8k

[tuffer]

gizlaroc said:

I have got a real bee in my bonnet about PCP deals at the moment, they are tending to charge as much as the GFV in interest. It is a complete con.

How is it a con? The terms are clearly laid out in the agreement in terms of monthly payments and total cost to the purchaser, if they choose to go down that route then that is their choice.

[Osinjak]

Toltec said:

The perceived value at three years old will be based on the full price rather than the reduced price?

Recent experience would suggest otherwise. List of mine was just under 58k but discounted to 45k, car is now 15 months old. Recent valuations range from 21k from WBAC to 26k from BMW main dealer. Outrageous depreciation either way (car is 335d Touring).

[anonymous-user]

Osinjak said:

Toltec said:

The perceived value at three years old will be based on the full price rather than the reduced price?

Recent experience would suggest otherwise. List of mine was just under 58k but discounted to 45k, car is now 15 months old. Recent valuations range from 21k from WBAC to 26k from BMW main dealer. Outrageous depreciation either way (car is 335d Touring).

Your experience is nearer the norm. Logic quickly rules out a car depreciating from its list value, when it can be bought new at significant discount. If it were the case one might expect to be asked more for a used car than for a new one, which isn't going to happen. (Well, someone might ask but only an idiot would bite.......)

[gizlaroc]

tuffer said:

gizlaroc said:

I have got a real bee in my bonnet about PCP deals at the moment, they are tending to charge as much as the GFV in interest. It is a complete con.

How is it a con? The terms are clearly laid out in the agreement in terms of monthly payments and total cost to the purchaser, if they choose to go down that route then that is their choice.

Because there is no other option available to the buyer at the dealers, and the way it is sold is "All car finance is the same" which simply isn't true, the way it is sold is bordering on mis-selling.
To be fair, even the sales guys don't get what is happening.

Libor rates in the UK last month were at 0.27%, most lenders are lending at between 2.9-3.5% currently up to £25k.
10.9% is hidden well in a monthly payment and it is not explained to the customer that they are borrowing at extremely high interest rates.

The way they push "....and we guarantee your car will be worth £xxxx in 48 months time." is also twisting the truth at best, what they are really saying is ".....even after you have paid the equivalent what the car cots in monthly payments, if you do want to keep it you will have to pay us 40% as much again at the end."
That is the truth of current PCP structuring but doesn't sound quite as appealing.

My old mans 530GT was £28k to be funded, BMW wanted £588 a month for 48 months and then £8000 balloon.
He kept saying "we guarantee your car will be worth £8k at the end."
I kept explaining "No, all you are guaranteeing is he will need to pay you another £8000 at the end if he wants to keep his car."
The guy looked seriously confused.
I exlained "If we use Lombard at 3.1% it is 2 more months and he owns the car outright, why would I want to pay £8000 extra interest to get a ballon for £8000?"

Now I am not expecting them to offer the same rate as high street lenders, not sure why, but what I would like to see is them offer the same rate for used as they offer for new, and if someone wants to do a straight repayment for 60 months allow it, they point blank refused that at any rate, which is the bit I find a con, pushing people into PCP deals when they know it is not the right deal for many.

I think we will see car finance get hammered in the same way PPI has been hammered.

[Osinjak]

REALIST123 said:

Osinjak said:

Toltec said:

The perceived value at three years old will be based on the full price rather than the reduced price?

Recent experience would suggest otherwise. List of mine was just under 58k but discounted to 45k, car is now 15 months old. Recent valuations range from 21k from WBAC to 26k from BMW main dealer. Outrageous depreciation either way (car is 335d Touring).

Your experience is nearer the norm. Logic quickly rules out a car depreciating from its list value, when it can be bought new at significant discount. If it were the case one might expect to be asked more for a used car than for a new one, which isn't going to happen. (Well, someone might ask but only an idiot would bite.......)

Indeed.

[335d]

Osinjak said:

Recent experience would suggest otherwise. List of mine was just under 58k but discounted to 45k, car is now 15 months old. Recent valuations range from 21k from WBAC to 26k from BMW main dealer. Outrageous depreciation either way (car is 335d Touring).

I think the £14k of options on a 3 Series might be your problem! With £4k of options instead, WBAC would pay exactly the same, and dealers perhaps £1-2k less.