RE: Kent cops scrap blues and twos
Monday 21st March 2005
Kent cops scrap blues and twos
Bid to reduce accidents is condemned as PC
Blues and twos are to be a thing of the past in Kent, as the police are to remove their cars' familiar accoutrements. According to a report in the Sunday Telegraph, the county's officers are to stay within the rules of the road in a bid to reduce the number of accidents involving police cars.
It follows a number of accidents involving speeding police cars. The latest tally is 30 people a year who are killed by police cars, a figure that has trebled over the past six years.
Officers have reportedly condemned it as "absurd political correctness". One officer with 25 years of service told the Sunday Telegraph that the number of police accidents was tiny when compared to the number of miles covered in emergency conditions.
Police chiefs defended the move, saying that, "Perhaps we have been using flashing lights and high speeds too readily. We have to balance the risk that a criminal might escape with the potential danger to the public of a high-speed pursuit."
Discussion
Dear, dear far too inconvenient to catch a criminal we might have to send him to court to tell him hes a bad boy and then let him off. Yes much safer to leave our cars in the garage that way nobody will get hurt other than the people who are mugged, robbed etc. As Littlejohn says 'you couldn't make it up'
Absolutely ridiculous....
The residents of Kent will have some nervous sweaty moments following a 999 call....as they sit and wait for the police to arrive....
You can't help thinking the hand wringing liberals...who bleat about police driving over and over again...are the real reasons behind this...
Obviously, 6 months down the line when crime is through the roof...the blues/twos practice will be re-instated..
The residents of Kent will have some nervous sweaty moments following a 999 call....as they sit and wait for the police to arrive....
You can't help thinking the hand wringing liberals...who bleat about police driving over and over again...are the real reasons behind this...
Obviously, 6 months down the line when crime is through the roof...the blues/twos practice will be re-instated..
Streetcop said:
Obviously, 6 months down the line when crime is through the roof...the blues/twos practice will be re-instated..
I wish I shared your optimism.
If past experience is anything to go by, then any lengths will be gone to in order to justify the decision afterwards, and to cover up or deny any negative effects.
What the actual outcome is will be of little or no significance, compared to the importance of political correctness and face saving.
As an aside, I wonder what BRAKE think of this?
Part A - What, how can they do this, what a stupid thing to do - it's not like they are there just to make sure the bib get back in time for shift change, they use the blues and twos for w few other reasons.
Part B - Top idea, 6 months later the Mentalists will see the adverse effect this has had on crime figures, the fact that it is unlikely to have any real impact on safety and the hundreds of people calling for their return. Show the cretins what a stupid idea this is then put them back on and when they start again hit them with the cold hard evidence of what happened when is was tried. Shame they just can't see it without having it put into practise first. (If only!)
Part B - Top idea, 6 months later the Mentalists will see the adverse effect this has had on crime figures, the fact that it is unlikely to have any real impact on safety and the hundreds of people calling for their return. Show the cretins what a stupid idea this is then put them back on and when they start again hit them with the cold hard evidence of what happened when is was tried. Shame they just can't see it without having it put into practise first. (If only!)
Rising rates of accidents involving emergency vehicles aren't necessarily the fault of the emergency vehicles. It's symptomatic of poor general driving standards: if other road users don't pay attention and don't react sensibly there are bound to be problems. Removing a police driver's option to use 'blues and twos' won't help that.
Mind you, they might have fewer accidents if the blue lights weren't accompanied by flashing main beam lamps. Hardly matters if oncoming traffic know you're coming if they can't see where they're going.
Mind you, they might have fewer accidents if the blue lights weren't accompanied by flashing main beam lamps. Hardly matters if oncoming traffic know you're coming if they can't see where they're going.
BlackStuff said:
Obviously, 6 months down the line when crime is through the roof...the blues/twos practice will be re-instated..
I wish I shared your optimism.
If past experience is anything to go by, then any lengths will be gone to in order to justify the decision afterwards, and to cover up or deny any negative effects.
What the actual outcome is will be of little or no significance, compared to the importance of political correctness and face saving.
As an aside, I wonder what BRAKE think of this?
I was thinking more of things like...Humberside Police scrapping their pursuit policy....then reinstating it...months later....and buying several Subaru Imprezas.....
Or Nottinghamshire Constabulary disbanding it's traffic department, only to see the beat bobbies snowed under with accident/collision investigations and then have to reinstate trafpol numbers...
I really don't know who's tune Kent Constabulary are dancing to....as I would imagine that 99% of the public want the police to have the ability to part traffic and make progress to an emergency...
I had an ex police driver around for dinner last night, (my cousin). She is now retired from the police and now is a police driving instructor. We were talking about this and she puts it all down to poor training, poor team work , under resourcing and traffic cops with ego's bigger than thier ability.
Instead of another knee jerk policy, why dont these idiots tackle the root cause of the problem.
Instead of another knee jerk policy, why dont these idiots tackle the root cause of the problem.
Lets put the on bikes too. There tree hugging 
. Imaging the fun on "Police camera shows", "Here in england watch this copper peddel is little heart out chasing a robber in a Lambo "
It would be nice to see the stat's breakdown on speed cop and normal cops with light's on. Does driver training make a difference (Retorical!).
I found it interesting watching the speedcop training on TV. Gave me a few pointers Allways room to improve.
. Imaging the fun on "Police camera shows", "Here in england watch this copper peddel is little heart out chasing a robber in a Lambo " It would be nice to see the stat's breakdown on speed cop and normal cops with light's on. Does driver training make a difference (Retorical!).
I found it interesting watching the speedcop training on TV. Gave me a few pointers
Allways room to improve.
This is just typical of the way the police service is going and I am just so glad that I have only 198 days left to go! The officer that has been reported as commenting about the miles covered versus the number of collisions is correct, but I still say it does not excuse even one collision. Kent police used to have one of the finest police driving schools in the country that trained officers from many other forces, but like everything else in the public service, costs have been cut, people who only ever sit behind a desk create new rules for those that are out there in the thick of things and everything all goes to rat poo! I have commented already on this site about my views on the current state of police driver training and do will not go on about it here again, but if you want to read it click here
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=57&t=151930&h=0
Blue lights are not just there to assist in making progress, they are there to protect the officers at the scene of an incident. If I was instructed to attend a road collision with a vehicle that was not equipped with emergency lighting I would tell the radio operator where to stick it. Any officer that does do this with an ill-equipped car, and gets hurt as a result, would have, IMHO, a very good case for compensation.
Anyway, isn’t this idea of throwing out the emergency lighting rather like throwing out the baby with the bath water? There are going to be far more collisions now with officers trying to meet their response times and having no warning equipment available to let the rest of the road users know they are there. This is all very silly and a prime example of how spineless this country is becoming. Get these officers some quality driver training like they used to have and stop cutting corners!
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=57&t=151930&h=0
Blue lights are not just there to assist in making progress, they are there to protect the officers at the scene of an incident. If I was instructed to attend a road collision with a vehicle that was not equipped with emergency lighting I would tell the radio operator where to stick it. Any officer that does do this with an ill-equipped car, and gets hurt as a result, would have, IMHO, a very good case for compensation.
Anyway, isn’t this idea of throwing out the emergency lighting rather like throwing out the baby with the bath water? There are going to be far more collisions now with officers trying to meet their response times and having no warning equipment available to let the rest of the road users know they are there. This is all very silly and a prime example of how spineless this country is becoming. Get these officers some quality driver training like they used to have and stop cutting corners!
Originally, when community support officers were introduced, I thought that they'd end up being a sub tier of the constabulary.
I considered the possiblitity that as time progressed that they might go through training and become proper police officers. However one looked at them, they were always going to be a difficult issue for government.
It now seems that all police officers are to be downgraded to Community Support Officers.
Who needs a police force. They might leave some armed Domestic Violence units. Maybe we could have some rapid response anti stress units.
Personally I favor the political correctness violation, riot force. Just think, if you employ football hooligans as police officers, not only do you garantee their continued employment, you can keep them under control. Possibly even set them on the immigrants.
Better still Herr Blair can call them the SS.
>> Edited by dilbert on Monday 21st March 12:34
I considered the possiblitity that as time progressed that they might go through training and become proper police officers. However one looked at them, they were always going to be a difficult issue for government.
It now seems that all police officers are to be downgraded to Community Support Officers.
Who needs a police force. They might leave some armed Domestic Violence units. Maybe we could have some rapid response anti stress units.
Personally I favor the political correctness violation, riot force. Just think, if you employ football hooligans as police officers, not only do you garantee their continued employment, you can keep them under control. Possibly even set them on the immigrants.
Better still Herr Blair can call them the SS.
>> Edited by dilbert on Monday 21st March 12:34
"Ride drive" don't leave.
We don't have enough thinking coppers as it is. You would be hard pressed to find people on this site that what rid of decent street/speed cops. Just a change in the speed kill's mantra. To raising driving standards by reasonable advise. Must work as Trained cops have less accidents per mile
We don't have enough thinking coppers as it is. You would be hard pressed to find people on this site that what rid of decent street/speed cops. Just a change in the speed kill's mantra. To raising driving standards by reasonable advise. Must work as Trained cops have less accidents per mile
Ride Drive said:
Anyway, isn’t this idea of throwing out the emergency lighting rather like throwing out the baby with the bath water? There are going to be far more collisions now with officers trying to meet their response times and having no warning equipment available to let the rest of the road users know they are there. This is all very silly and a prime example of how spineless this country is becoming.
Didn't the article say that Kent Police would be obeying the Highway Code etc? Presumably therefore they don;t need other road users to know they are there as they will be sitting n the traffic jams along with the rest of us!
So next time there is a car accident the Police will be sitting at the back of queue along with everyone else!
If we want villians caught or Police to attend emergencies then we have to accept the consequences, and if one of those is a few accidents so be it. Although I would assume that the drivers have been properly trained in the first place, which would appear to be doubtful.
Ironically shortly before reading the article Yesterday in The Telegraph I had been turning right at traffic lights, nothing coming towards me and a green light, and I was already to go, when I suddenly saw a Sussex Police car coming from my left, it had passed the traffic at the red light, and then stopped indicator flashing, blue lights flashing but no siren. So I stopped to let it carry on. But have SUssex removed their sirens as it was quite disconcerting to see it with lights but no noise!
Andrew Noakes said:
Rising rates of accidents involving emergency vehicles aren't necessarily the fault of the emergency vehicles. It's symptomatic of poor general driving standards: if other road users don't pay attention and don't react sensibly there are bound to be problems. Removing a police driver's option to use 'blues and twos' won't help that.
Mind you, they might have fewer accidents if the blue lights weren't accompanied by flashing main beam lamps. Hardly matters if oncoming traffic know you're coming if they can't see where they're going.
Good post Andrew...
There are a large number of drivers who haven't got a clue what to do when faced with an emergency vehicle on blues/twos...They stop on bends, crests of hills, alongside pedestrian refuges etc etc...
I think the main reason for this is a lack of 'mirror work' by drivers...If they had been looking in their mirrors regularly they would have seen the emergency vehicle and been in a position with plenty of time to plan where they will slow or stop. Instead of only realising it's there when it's directly behind you...
The flashing headlights is a good point, but in daylight; essential. At night, I only run on blue lights with the odd extended headlight flash to 'wake 'em up'
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