Getting Deeds from a solicitor

[Sideways Tim]

My mum wants her deeds back from the solicitor, but they seem to be making it unnecessarily complicated. Is there any reason they can't just pop the deeds in the post to her?

[TooMany2cvs]

Sideways Tim said:

My mum wants her deeds back from the solicitor, but they seem to be making it unnecessarily complicated. Is there any reason they can't just pop the deeds in the post to her?

"Deeds" don't really mean anything these days - unless it's decades since anything changed with the ownership, including repaying any mortgage, then the primary record is the Land Registry. The paper deeds are just a nice little historical-interest wrinkle.

[Sideways Tim]

That's all she wants. The solicitor is insisting on 3 forms of ID and a home visit (mums housebound). All seems a bit like they're fishing for a payment for making it over complex to me.

edit to add it is decades since anything changed with the property. In fact thinking about it, they might still be in dads name, who died 17 years ago.

[Muncher]

My firm would never charge for returning deeds even though it takes a trainee a fair bit of time. We do however have to verify that the person who is requesting the deeds is the person entitled to them, which is pretty sensible really.

3 forms of ID isn't necessary, we would need one original document to prove a client's address and a further piece of photographic ID or a certified copy of photographic ID.

[Sideways Tim]

Photographic ID is probably the issue then - she's 80.

[TooMany2cvs]

Sideways Tim said:

That's all she wants. The solicitor is insisting on 3 forms of ID and a home visit (mums housebound). All seems a bit like they're fishing for a payment for making it over complex to me.

edit to add it is decades since anything changed with the property. In fact thinking about it, they might still be in dads name, who died 17 years ago.

If that's the case, and the place isn't registered, then the deeds ARE rather key, so they're right in being very cautious about just shoving them in the post, especially if they aren't even in her name.

https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-lan...

It's worth paying to get the place registered in her name before posting.

[Sideways Tim]

Thanks. Have had a chat with mum to get a grasp of what she's up to and would appreciate advise.

She's coming to live with us later this year, we have a soon to be vacant self contained bungalow in the grounds (that makes it sound a lot grander than it actually is) and as she's unable to walk unaided and needs a stairlift to get around her place, it just makes sense all round. Apparently she's decided rather than selling her house, she wants to keep it in the family, so basically give it to me and then when the time comes I pass it on to one of my kids, etc. Pain in the arse really, but if it keeps her happy...

Now she's lived there since it was built, mortgage paid off ages ago, seems like the deeds are in her name after the fact of dad passing. However I don't think the place is registered.

Basically - what do I need to do?

[TooMany2cvs]

Sideways Tim said:

Thanks. Have had a chat with mum to get a grasp of what she's up to and would appreciate advise.

She's coming to live with us later this year, we have a soon to be vacant self contained bungalow in the grounds (that makes it sound a lot grander than it actually is) and as she's unable to walk unaided and needs a stairlift to get around her place, it just makes sense all round. Apparently she's decided rather than selling her house, she wants to keep it in the family, so basically give it to me and then when the time comes I pass it on to one of my kids, etc. Pain in the arse really, but if it keeps her happy...

Bear in mind if ever she needs residential care, it'll be seen as deprivation of assets if she tries to claim that she can't afford to pay for her own care. If she dies within 7yrs, there may still be inheritance tax payable.

Sideways Tim said:

Now she's lived there since it was built, mortgage paid off ages ago, seems like the deeds are in her name after the fact of dad passing. However I don't think the place is registered.

It should have been registered on a change of ownership 17yrs ago, even within husband/wife, I'd have thought.

Sideways Tim said:

Basically - what do I need to do?

Get it registered in your name...

[Sideways Tim]

Thanks. Not sure I want the hassle of it really. The house is worth about £150k tops, which I'll inherit anyway, unless as you say she ends up in care.

All I could do with it in the mean time is rent it out and it would need modernising anyway to do that.

Will try to convince her to sell it, but she's a stubborn old bat. If she's adamant and it's not been registered, can I not just get it registered in my name from the get go?

[TooMany2cvs]

Sideways Tim said:

can I not just get it registered in my name from the get go?

Yep.

[Muncher]

Agreed, the flip side is coming to deal with her affairs in a few years time and finding that the property has been sold to someone else because they phoned up and had only a copy of a utility bill in her name to prove they were the owner.

[Sideways Tim]

OK - thanks. Most helpful. Will try to convince her to sell it, but I think I already know how that will work out.

[williamp]

...but as the others have said, unnecessery if the land registry knows all about it.

I would contat them first and do a land searh. It will be less stressful for you Mother

[Gafferjim]

I've just asked for my house deeds from the building society that were holding them for safe keeping. Actual mortgage was paid off years ago, but they held it open with 50p still to pay, and store the deeds for you. I had to show 2 x ID to request them.
Building society says it will take a couple of weeks to complete. I've just had a letter from the Land Registry to say that the building society have applied for "Cancellation to the mortgage dated (when 1st taken out) in favour of (Building soc)"
Basically if this is not correct, then to get in touch with them. (It's fine)

So, your solicitor may be doing something similar to my building soc. I seem to remember at the time when I paid off the mortgage, that I was given 3 options relative to the house deeds. 1) I could take them myself. 2) My solicitor could hold them. 3) The building soc would hold them.


I personally would take ID for yourself, (For one, birth certificate is good, as it shows maiden name) Mothers ID and letter authorising you to deal with it. If then they are still awkward, request one of their staff visit your mother as she is incapable of attending their office.

[UpTheIron]

Sideways Tim said:

Thanks. Not sure I want the hassle of it really. The house is worth about £150k tops

It's not really a big hassle is it? Would you rather she gave it to somebody else / Battersea Dogs because you couldn't be bothered with her wishes at her time of life.

I totally understand where you are coming from, but just get it registered and take it from there. If care home fees come into the equation they will get their money whether she gives you the house or the cash post sale.

[TooMany2cvs]

Gafferjim said:

I've just asked for my house deeds from the building society that were holding them for safe keeping. Actual mortgage was paid off years ago, but they held it open with 50p still to pay, and store the deeds for you. I had to show 2 x ID to request them.
Building society says it will take a couple of weeks to complete. I've just had a letter from the Land Registry to say that the building society have applied for "Cancellation to the mortgage dated (when 1st taken out) in favour of (Building soc)"
Basically if this is not correct, then to get in touch with them. (It's fine)

So - as far as the legal proof of ownership of your house goes - the property is definitely registered with the LR, with the charge in favour of the mortgage lender registered. That charge had been retained by the lender all this time, even though there was a negligible debt remaining, but they're now releasing it. Oh, and they're sending you some old paperwork they'd retained on file...

[Sideways Tim]

UpTheIron said:

t's not really a big hassle is it? Would you rather she gave it to somebody else / Battersea Dogs because you couldn't be bothered with her wishes at her time of life.

I totally understand where you are coming from, but just get it registered and take it from there. If care home fees come into the equation they will get their money whether she gives you the house or the cash post sale.

I was meaning the hassle of what to do with the place after she's in with us. It'll need updating in order to rent it out, so new kitchen, bathroom, carpets, decorating etc. Everything is geared to an 80 year old's taste and ways. It would be much easier to sell it as is. Mind you, as you point out - care costs will be taken anyway. From that point of view the only way I'll actually benefit from the place is if it's rented out beforehand.

What's the score with care home fees, is there a point after which they can't pursue? I mean if mums living with us for the next fifteen years, would that still be an issue? Or would I have to keep any proceeds from the sale (if that the way it goes) aside in order to pay?

Just trying to figure out a vague plan of what to do. Getting old is crap.

[KevinCamaroSS]

Sideways Tim said:

What's the score with care home fees, is there a point after which they can't pursue? I mean if mums living with us for the next fifteen years, would that still be an issue? Or would I have to keep any proceeds from the sale (if that the way it goes) aside in order to pay?

Just trying to figure out a vague plan of what to do. Getting old is crap.

I think they can go back 7 years (for IHT as well as valuation for care home charges). Therefore if you sold the house, she gave you the money and she lived with you for seven years after that you will probably be in the clear.

[Ken Figenus]

I'm in the middle of a lot of stuff like this and also need help & advice. Anyway...

Not sure on that 7 year figure - lots of opinions on how long they can go back. They key is a deliberate deprivation. Her giving you a house and you giving her a house doesn't look like deliberate deprivation to me - she needs a bungalow to live in for health reasons which further backs that up.

Parents were once allowed to 'look after' their kids which also included giving them stuff they owned too!

[TooMany2cvs]

Ken Figenus said:

They key is a deliberate deprivation. Her giving you a house and you giving her a house doesn't look like deliberate deprivation to me - she needs a bungalow to live in for health reasons which further backs that up.

But if the house is worth £500k, and the bungalow £100k, and the care bills swallow all of the bungalow value, the council would be well within their rights to say "No, we won't fund your care, because you've deliberately deprived yourself of another £400k."

Ken Figenus said:

Parents were once allowed to 'look after' their kids which also included giving them stuff they owned too!

They still are. The question is whether they've ever been able to give all their money away then plead poverty, and would the council tax payer please subsidise the gift?