Canon 6D - active child and pet lens
Canon 6D - active child and pet lens
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hab1966

Original Poster:

1,124 posts

235 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
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I have a Canon 6D with 24-105mm, 50mm and 100-400mm lenses.

I predominantly use the 24-105mm though im struggling to get any decent pictures of our 5 yr old daughter and our puppy unless it is perfect conditions. Our daughter does a lot of sports so she's never still.

I've tried using the Sport mode, as im not that good with the Av or Tv modes and i dont have the knowledge (or patience) to manipulate the RAW file. The reason was that its probably set up for motion subjects?

However, a lot of the images come out darker than expected, blured through movement or out of focus as the camera appears to have focused on something else. Those that do pass muster dont have the wow factor either, they are plain and lifeless.

I tried the 50mm lens the other day to try and take some inside pics of our puppy and it was better than using the 24-105mm. I was shooting fully automatic for this as thankfully the puppy was sitting still. The pics were better than when i tried with the 24-105mm.

The 50mm is a f1.4 whilst the 24-105mm is f4. I only really use the 100-400 for wildlife shooting.

Any tips that can be offered to help me improve the 'action' shots inside and outside would be most welcome. I dont have a flash and would prefer not to have to change any of the kit or add to it unless really necessary. I still believe i am the weakest link; in the hands of somebody more proficient than i, the kit should work.

Golaboots

369 posts

171 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
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Hi


F4 is hard work indoors at this time of year.
Would stick with the 50mm prime if you don't want to use flash.

Be sure to keep the shutter speed above 1/50th, wide aperture F2 or so, turn on Auto ISO, Continuous AF mode if the subject moves.
If the background is lighter than the subject you'll probably need some positive exposure compensation too.

R E S T E C P

660 posts

128 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
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Golaboots said:
wide aperture F2 or so
"active child and pet" - I think F2 might be a bit of a challenge unless the pet is a tortoise hehe

Whack the ISO up. The 6D performs really well at high ISO.

When I'm taking photos of our baby or dogs indoors with only a few feeble rays of overcast Scottish cloudlight struggling through our windows, I usually put the 6D in manual mode with ISO at 12,800, aperture at F4 and shutter at whatever is required to get exposure right. If it's still too dark at the lowest usable shutter speed then you need more light.
Using manual mode means that if you turn the camera towards the window you'll still expose the child/pet properly (although obviously the window will be blown out).

Don't expect miracles though - while 12,800 is usable on the 6D, you're not going to win any awards with the results. If you're looking for really big quality prints, then the only answer is more light.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

277 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
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hab1966 said:
I have a Canon 6D with 24-105mm, 50mm and 100-400mm lenses.

I've tried using the Sport mode, as im not that good with the Av or Tv modes and i dont have the knowledge (or patience) to manipulate the RAW file. The reason was that its probably set up for motion subjects?

I still believe i am the weakest link; in the hands of somebody more proficient than i, the kit should work.
Yes for sure. Sounds like you dont understand the basics of photography so are likely just letting the camera do whatever it wants. Thats your first problem.

Please post some examples but unless you start understanding how your camera works it wont help because the suggestions for improvement will be meaningless.

Sport mode would probably be your best bet but it will be using the cameras metering so you will need to use exposure compensation to adjust what the camera is expecting.


ok..

1 - post examples with exposure details
2 - tell us what modes you are using
3 - tell us when/if you are using exposure compensation
4 - tell us what metering mode you have selected
5 - go and learn what aperture, shutter speed and iso do and the exposure triangle.

singlecoil

35,775 posts

269 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
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Flash might help. Yongnuo make some very cheap (for how good they are) flash guns. Bounce the flash off walls or ceiling for a better result.

Simpo Two

91,357 posts

288 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
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Sadly using 'modes' or 'Auto' isn't the quick fix the marketing people would have you believe. You'll get much better results by understanding the basics of exposure and knowing which parameter/s to use and when.

You get a correct exposure by a combination of aperture, shutter speed and ISO. You get a sharp photo by a combination of those plus good technique and making allowance for the lens.

Your main problem is lack of light, and the second one is a fast moving, unpredictable subject. The good news is that you have a 50mm f1.4 lens. That's fast; you can maximise that by choosing aperture priority exposure and choosing a nice big aperture to let lots of light in - like f2. I'm not suggesting f1.4 because the depth of field will be too shallow to use here. Even f2 is pushing it if the subject is moving back and forth.

OK so say f2 isn't working - you've got the right exposure ('brightness') but the subject is dodging in and out of the plane of focus so nothing is sharp. So try f5.6 for greater depth of field and compensate by increasing the ISO. If aperture and ISO aren't working then you need more light - get a decent flashgun with bounce/swivel head.

Don't bother with RAW, you're not there yet. Concentrate on getting a technically good photo in the can. By that I mean a decent exposure and a sharp image with good composition/expression.

Focus is of course crucial. Keep it simple by using the centre point only and set the AF to 'single' not continuous' (or whatever Canon call it, I'm a Nikon man). Aim at the part you want sharp and, if it's not in the middle of the photo, semi-depress the shutter release, reframe, then take the shot.

That will do for starters smile

ExPat2B

2,159 posts

223 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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I am with singlecoil - you need a flash this time of year for indoor kids photography. You can get some nice light, but unless you are posing a co-operative model by a window its going to be hard work. The 6D is a good low light camera but crappy lighting is still crappy lighting, all the the ISO in the world wont bring out the colours in their eyes or bring out the contouring of their faces.

You have exactly the same kit as my Dad so I have a fair bit of experience shooting with your gear, so here is my advice :

On the lenses : The 25-105 is a good lens but needs struggles to focus accurately in low light on moving subjects. Use the center point only on the 6D. The 50mm is also a good lens but its soft at f1.4 and needs stopping down to f2.8.

Buy a Yongnuo 568 flash, set it with the flash pointing backwards and up 45 degrees.

-- this is an important point, a lot of people struggle to wrap their heads around it - so bear with me. You are going to let the TTL on the flash set the right exposure. So set the camera to manual mode. Shutter to 1/180. Aperture for the the 24-105 is f5.6 and for the 50mm f2.8.

In this mode, the camera will do a short flash, get the amount of light, and then set the exposure by increasing flash power. If it doesn't have enough flash power it will be too dark.

So you will now need to set your ISO to compensate for the amount of reflected light from the flash. If you have a white room and walls and a light floor, you can use ISO 200, a darker room with bookshelves and dark walls will need ISO 800.


Simpo Two

91,357 posts

288 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
ExPat2B said:
Buy a Yongnuo 568 flash, set it with the flash pointing backwards and up 45 degrees.
It depends what's behind you of course - if it's a dark curtain or high/dark ceiling don't expect the flash to have any effect!

OP - this is an area you haven't found yet called 'fill flash'. I use it a lot and also for almost all my wedding photos. Different people like to do it in different ways and it depends on your kit. For example I used aperture priority exposure, set the flash to 'TTL-BL' (Nikonspeak for 'fill', pointed the flash where I thought it would work best (usually with the white card to throw a little light forward and add a catchlight). Usually it was pointing forwards and up at about 50-80 degees as that's the most useful bit of ceiling. The camera was set to use 1/60th when in this mode but even with a 200mm lens it was fine. It was a lucky combo I found early on and I don't claim to be an expert on the subject but it worked very well for me. As with all things, you have to find a method that works for you.

Two key things to remember when lighting. 1) Light travels in straight lines. 2) It obeys the inverse square law which means that with distance and spread it falls off very rapidly.

hab1966

Original Poster:

1,124 posts

235 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Many thanks for all the replies.

I don't know what these recent photos will tell you, except i cant shoot indoors! My outdoors shots are okay (not Rob Dickinson standard though!!). This tells me i'm not adapting to the light levels correctly in terms of setting the camera up and composing the picture.

I also admit that i'm the issue here. My understanding of aperture, shutter and ISO is basic and can be improved. However, ive wrongly been a point and shoot type person as opposed to thinking things through. I've never had patience!!



f2.8 1/40sec ISO800 50mm (50mm)


f2.8 1/40sec ISO1600 50mm (50mm)


f3.2 1/40sec ISO3200 50mm (50mm)


f4 1/250sec ISO12800 58mm (24-105mm)

Fastchas

2,797 posts

144 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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Your dog's face is out of focus firstly. Need to focus on his eyes, instead of his chest/body.
Also, 1/40th is too slow for handheld. The dog will probably move and you'll need at least 1/80th even if it sits still to compensate for your own unsteadiness, maybe up to 1/125th otherwise it'll be blurry.
Nice looking dog though...

eps

6,878 posts

292 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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We're all learning!!

Your photos don't look too bad... but how are you focussing? I'm not sure about Canon, but suspect it's similar to Nikon (or vice versa) and sometimes the camera attempts to do too much for you. It looks like it is setting the focal point as opposed to you setting it. I recently changed my camera body and found the new one was attempting to set the focal point for me! It required a bit of googling but then set it to a single point and then can 'jog' that as required from the single, central point.

Personally I would shoot ISO 400 up to 800 or possibly 1600 max. But that's because I come from film and this value was set the same for a roll of film. I would also set it and forget it for a specific environment or light level, e.g. indoors 400 min or 800. Then get the camera to measure the available light for you and then you can possibly play a little from there.. Outside you want 100 - 400 ISO if conditions are ideal. Above 800 or 1600 and the photos will become overly grainy.

Aperture or Shutter priority can allow you to have some control over this, but you then need to decide what sort of shot you are attempting to take. The camera will then set the other value to balance the light. Of course it also depends on what setting you have got for the exposure measurement and White Balance.

I was quite lucky in that I attended a local College photography course back in the day - basically you need to play with the settings a little - you will end up taking some duff photographs but it should start to work for you and you start to get a feeling for what works and what doesn't. It is a lot of trial and error I'm afraid.

Ideally you want aperture set to around f9 give or take a step or two - otherwise DoF will play havoc with the photos and you'll introduce too much blurriness to your subject.

Shutter speed can be as low as 1/60 (without resting on something) - but that's to avoid camera shake and also more for static subjects.

These are just general settings... I would set the ISO to a specific setting, leave that and then attempt to work either with Shutter or Aperture priority so that you control just one aspect and then get the camera to balance the other setting. Swapping from Shutter or Aperture priority or another setting too much will only confuse things, try to stick to one or the other in a 'session' and possibly adjust the ISO if you can't seem to get the Shutter speed or Aperture setting to the value you want - e.g. quicker shutter speed, you may need to increase the ISO or less DoF.

Simpo Two

91,357 posts

288 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
I think you need (1) a flashgun (2) work on getting the exposure right (3) focus point.

The subject of exposure - ie brightness - brings us to the 'histogram', a little graph your camera can display to show you how bright the image really is (you can't judge whether it's correct from the monitor because it will look darker in bright light and brighter in low light). Take the shot, look at the histogram and if it's too far out of whack consider how to make the exposure more correct. I use +/- EV because I shoot semi-auto; if you're in manual exposure mode (which I don't recommend for you here/yet) then you'd alter aperture, shutter speed or ISO.

After that we can look at 'white balance' - if this is right then whites will appear white (or at least light grey) and, together with exposure, not the murky brown colour you have there.

Homework: Learn about histograms and buy a flashgun smile

Steve Evil

10,801 posts

252 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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Another quick rule of thumb for you that has been mentioned above, but worth expanding on a little, is that if you're hand-holding and shooting a non-moving target, your shutter speed should be at least as quick as the length of your lens, so your 50mm prime means you need at least 1/50th of a second to avoid camera shake (1/60th is the closest your camera will go), for the 105mm you'll need at least 1/105th of a second (1/125th is the closest).

As your shots above are 1/40th of a second, that's not quite fast enough to account for camera-shake and is slow enough that your dog moving around is being picked up too during the exposure.


Ed_P

701 posts

292 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
It makes a bit difference using flash:

Springer Spaniel by Ed Phillips, on Flickr

I put a sheet of black card against the wall as a backdrop and positioned a stuffed toy to practice on with the lighting. There was some window light coming from the right and I set up the camera in Manual so that this light JUST registered (in this case 1/125th second, F/6,3, ISO 250). I then had an off-camera flash firing through an umbrella. An on-camera flash would have worked too (though less controllable), and is best pointed away from the subject so that it bounces back from the wall/ceiling). The dog was quite cooperative, so that helped a lot! If you can, get on the same eye-level as the dog (or child).

I am very used to using flash so of course, that helps a lot. A flash-gun opens up so many opportunities and is a great investment. The cheaper Chinese (and other) kit is very well-regarded and their wireless triggers give even greater flexibility!

nessiemac

1,749 posts

264 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
eps said:
We're all learning!!

Ideally you want aperture set to around f9 give or take a step or two - otherwise DoF will play havoc with the photos and you'll introduce too much blurriness to your subject.
More or less agree with what you posted but i don't get the F9 aperture comment. Surely the whole point of having a fast lens is using it wide open or very near?

If the OP shot at F1.4 or thereabouts he would have achieved much better photos compared to shooting at F2.8 to F 4 in the samples above.

nessiemac

1,749 posts

264 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
hab1966 said:
Many thanks for all the replies.

I don't know what these recent photos will tell you, except i cant shoot indoors! My outdoors shots are okay (not Rob Dickinson standard though!!). This tells me i'm not adapting to the light levels correctly in terms of setting the camera up and composing the picture.

I also admit that i'm the issue here. My understanding of aperture, shutter and ISO is basic and can be improved. However, ive wrongly been a point and shoot type person as opposed to thinking things through. I've never had patience!!
The main problem here i can see is a really slow shutter but you are using F2.8 to F4 whereas if you used F1.4 you would have so much more light coming in to enable a higher shutter speed to get sharper pics.

singlecoil

35,775 posts

269 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
nessiemac said:
hab1966 said:
Many thanks for all the replies.

I don't know what these recent photos will tell you, except i cant shoot indoors! My outdoors shots are okay (not Rob Dickinson standard though!!). This tells me i'm not adapting to the light levels correctly in terms of setting the camera up and composing the picture.

I also admit that i'm the issue here. My understanding of aperture, shutter and ISO is basic and can be improved. However, ive wrongly been a point and shoot type person as opposed to thinking things through. I've never had patience!!
The main problem here i can see is a really slow shutter but you are using F2.8 to F4 whereas if you used F1.4 you would have so much more light coming in to enable a higher shutter speed to get sharper pics.
But the depth of field would be reduced, to the point of having to decide which eye you want in focus.

nessiemac

1,749 posts

264 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
singlecoil said:
But the depth of field would be reduced, to the point of having to decide which eye you want in focus.
Unless he was really close you would still get an acceptable photo and a much better chance with more light surely?

This was taken indoors at F1.4

Mack at F1.4 by nessiemac1, on Flickr

singlecoil

35,775 posts

269 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
nessiemac said:
singlecoil said:
But the depth of field would be reduced, to the point of having to decide which eye you want in focus.
Unless he was really close you would still get an acceptable photo and a much better chance with more light surely?

This was taken indoors at F1.4

Mack at F1.4 by nessiemac1, on Flickr
On that one the whiskers look sharp but the eyes seem just a little soft. But still a very good photo.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

277 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
hab1966 said:
Many thanks for all the replies.

I don't know what these recent photos will tell you, except i cant shoot indoors! My outdoors shots are okay (not Rob Dickinson standard though!!). This tells me i'm not adapting to the light levels correctly in terms of setting the camera up and composing the picture.

I also admit that i'm the issue here. My understanding of aperture, shutter and ISO is basic and can be improved. However, ive wrongly been a point and shoot type person as opposed to thinking things through. I've never had patience!!



f2.8 1/40sec ISO800 50mm (50mm)


f2.8 1/40sec ISO1600 50mm (50mm)


f3.2 1/40sec ISO3200 50mm (50mm)


f4 1/250sec ISO12800 58mm (24-105mm)
OK first point your white balance is wrong. Way too warm. If you shot raw you could fix this later. its not that hard with tools like lightroom you dont even notice. plus you have a lot more ability to recover poorly exposed images.

Second you are exposing for the scene as a whole rather than the subject. The metering (mode) is not working and I am guessing you didnt give it a hint with exposure compensation.


shot 1 - totally out of focus. how many focus points are you using? Use the centre one only and single shot focus. focus and recompose (half press) if you need too.

1/40th of a second is OK if the dog doesnt move, but if it does you need 1/200th

Which is the problem in shot 2. too slow shutter speed. Unwanted subject movement is unfixable.

Overall you are shooting in very low light, this is always going to cause problems and wont help the focus system either ( the 6d centre point is ok in low light as it goes).

Ideally add more light here, with laps or whatever, or a flash (flash adds complexity tbh and isnt an instant fix..)

but ..

Check your focus points and focusing
Fix your white balance
get more light - f2.0 iso 3200-6400
fix your exposure/metering