996 Manual to Tiptronic move due to ankle - good/bad?
Discussion
Bit of a dilema here.
I've owned my 2000 996 C2 manual for a couple of years; loved it, great to drive and other than the usual consumables (and known bits like the radiator fan ballasts) it's been faultless. I've done over 46k in the that time and the plan was always to keep this for a while, get the paint sorted at the front and maintain but otherwise leave unmolested.
However, life had other plans. Long story cut short, broke my left ankle as a teenager, broke it again a year ago and then got a case of septic arthritis in the joint in November. That last one almost cost me the foot and I'm still recouperating months later, but it's looking like the infection has finished off what the breaks started and I am looking at a Fusion of the left ankle at some point this year.
So.... give that A) for at least the next 6-9 months I'm not going to be able to do much with the left foot at all and B) afterwards I don't know how well, if at all, I'll be able to work a heavy clutch, I'm looking at my options.
Obvious choice is to trade across into a Tiptronic... but I've heard everything from they are horribly slow and cause other issues (e.g. contribute to bore scoring by preventing warm up, leaking oil etc) to "they are great, you just need to adapt". The alternative being a move to ... something else? (can't afford good 997 money and told not much reason to believe auto behaviour is better either).
Anyone got some firsthand experience they can share? Am I going to regret moving from one to the other? Can't testdrive right now due to circumstances, but looking to get out there in a few weeks when things improve.
I've owned my 2000 996 C2 manual for a couple of years; loved it, great to drive and other than the usual consumables (and known bits like the radiator fan ballasts) it's been faultless. I've done over 46k in the that time and the plan was always to keep this for a while, get the paint sorted at the front and maintain but otherwise leave unmolested.
However, life had other plans. Long story cut short, broke my left ankle as a teenager, broke it again a year ago and then got a case of septic arthritis in the joint in November. That last one almost cost me the foot and I'm still recouperating months later, but it's looking like the infection has finished off what the breaks started and I am looking at a Fusion of the left ankle at some point this year.
So.... give that A) for at least the next 6-9 months I'm not going to be able to do much with the left foot at all and B) afterwards I don't know how well, if at all, I'll be able to work a heavy clutch, I'm looking at my options.
Obvious choice is to trade across into a Tiptronic... but I've heard everything from they are horribly slow and cause other issues (e.g. contribute to bore scoring by preventing warm up, leaking oil etc) to "they are great, you just need to adapt". The alternative being a move to ... something else? (can't afford good 997 money and told not much reason to believe auto behaviour is better either).
Anyone got some firsthand experience they can share? Am I going to regret moving from one to the other? Can't testdrive right now due to circumstances, but looking to get out there in a few weeks when things improve.
Everyone is different, but all i will say is owners tend to defend their cars like their children. I can't see many Tiptronic owners coming out of the woodwork to say the gearbox is hopeless, and they'll pay you to take their cars away from them.
It's not just a Porsche thing. I'm on an NSX forum and you have owners of the F Matic Auto describing it as 'F1 Style'. Everyone knows it's a 4 speed slushbox developed in the '80s, but try telling someone's kid that they are ugly.
So what's my point? Move on from the 996. If you can stretch to Porsche with the latest PDK, then great. Otherwise, use the opportunity to look around for some test drives. I'm thinking an E92 M3 V8 DCT might be a nice change for you.
It's not just a Porsche thing. I'm on an NSX forum and you have owners of the F Matic Auto describing it as 'F1 Style'. Everyone knows it's a 4 speed slushbox developed in the '80s, but try telling someone's kid that they are ugly.
So what's my point? Move on from the 996. If you can stretch to Porsche with the latest PDK, then great. Otherwise, use the opportunity to look around for some test drives. I'm thinking an E92 M3 V8 DCT might be a nice change for you.
Point Taken 
I assumed (and this is a giant assumption here) that most people have a preference for Auto or Manual in general, and wouldn't cross shop.... so there won't be main people who have driven both back to back to make an honest assessment of it (can't really put much faith in the auto rags as they just can't write objectively about the 911 in general, 996 press being a typical example of froth in mouth).
Friend is trying to nudge me towards a 2009 XKR.... but that seems to trade a little too much away to be a GT rather than a sports car. Really, there isn't much out there thats as engaging to drive and livable as a 911. At least, not at the 996 end of the market.
I assumed (and this is a giant assumption here) that most people have a preference for Auto or Manual in general, and wouldn't cross shop.... so there won't be main people who have driven both back to back to make an honest assessment of it (can't really put much faith in the auto rags as they just can't write objectively about the 911 in general, 996 press being a typical example of froth in mouth).
Friend is trying to nudge me towards a 2009 XKR.... but that seems to trade a little too much away to be a GT rather than a sports car. Really, there isn't much out there thats as engaging to drive and livable as a 911. At least, not at the 996 end of the market.
I've had tiptronic, manual and pdk Porsches in that order. There's no doubt that the pdk is a better auto than the tiptronic but I always enjoyed driving the tip. As many will say later in this thread, you won't know if you will like or hate the tip until you try it. But to enjoy it the most you will have to get the hang of using the steering wheel buttons...which is not particularly intuitive the first time you try using them.
I own a manual and a tip 996.
Yes, the manual is more engaging if you are "up for it"!
Its difficult to feel like a boy racer in a tip
In reality if you gun a tip from first gear it will stay with a manual pretty well within legal speed limits
The added bonus is that in boring traffic a tip is far more relaxing to drive
Yes, the manual is more engaging if you are "up for it"!
Its difficult to feel like a boy racer in a tip
In reality if you gun a tip from first gear it will stay with a manual pretty well within legal speed limits
The added bonus is that in boring traffic a tip is far more relaxing to drive
Easy choice. If you love 996's, do the switch. Don't let the outcome of your condition spoil your enjoyment of ownership and the experience of driving a 911. Despite having a manual myself, on most public roads and normal driving conditions, does it really matter??? Hope everything goes well either way.
I came out of a manual 996 C2 into a 996 turbo tip. I must admit that I was looking for manual spec and had reservations but that was the one concession I had to make to get a turbo with the rest of the spec I wanted! I appreciate that the power delivery is somewhat different between a C2 and a turbo but I really like the tip - best of both worlds really. Most of the time though I drive it in manual as I have had flappy paddles fitted, instead of the standard buttons on the wheel.
stubbsy996 said:
I came out of a manual 996 C2 into a 996 turbo tip. I must admit that I was looking for manual spec and had reservations but that was the one concession I had to make to get a turbo with the rest of the spec I wanted! I appreciate that the power delivery is somewhat different between a C2 and a turbo but I really like the tip - best of both worlds really. Most of the time though I drive it in manual as I have had flappy paddles fitted, instead of the standard buttons on the wheel.
There really is no comparison. The tip blunts performance in a 996 - 3.4 especially. The extra bhp in a turbo solves this. I got used to the buttons but could never get used to the Tip gearbox, even after installing a sprint booster. By default you start off in second (which really annoyed me) so only have 4 gears to play with. You can do 0-110mph in 2 gears which dulls the excitement somewhat especially as the M96 engine sounds great going through the revs.
The Tiptronic box itself is fine in other applications (e.g. Cayenne, a lazy Merc or even 996/7.1 Turbo) but it really doesn't suit a NA 996/997.1. When you drive an E92 M3 DCT, stick it in M mode, change down to second at 50mph and prep your ears for the blip on downshift
The Tiptronic box itself is fine in other applications (e.g. Cayenne, a lazy Merc or even 996/7.1 Turbo) but it really doesn't suit a NA 996/997.1. When you drive an E92 M3 DCT, stick it in M mode, change down to second at 50mph and prep your ears for the blip on downshift
I bought a 964 tip when I had long term ankle problems. Whilst normally I'm not a fan of auto, under the circs it was fun being in a 911.
Under the same conditions again I'd try to get into a pdk as the tip isn't that great (if you don't like it, some do).
Sorry to hear of your woes, I was fortunate to recover.
Bert
Under the same conditions again I'd try to get into a pdk as the tip isn't that great (if you don't like it, some do).
Sorry to hear of your woes, I was fortunate to recover.
Bert
Due to a spinal injury I have issues with my left leg and so I only drive automatics. I have had my 996 Carrera tip for something like 7 years now and I still love driving it.
I have changed the steering wheel for a manual one with the retrofit paddles, but even with the buttons it was a great drive.
I have changed the steering wheel for a manual one with the retrofit paddles, but even with the buttons it was a great drive.
Couple of points from me....
For the avoidance of doubt, we still have Noddy! '53, '03 C4 Cab tip so ticks every 'hairdresser' box....
We use it on lots of motorway, A roads and some cracking B roads heading backwards and forwards from WC2 to GL6 (Glos) It gets driven in London and the dreaded M4/40 corridor.
Whilst PDK wins hands down, ours still puts a smile on my face almost every time I get in it. In heavy London traffic, it is effortless. Stop start/40 mph crawl on congested motorways, a breeze.
'Spirited' driving, perfectly acceptable in my view as it seems reasonably intuitive, after a few mins 'going for it', you get right back into the habit of tipping the gears on sound alone and the buttons are very easy to get used to.
One thing I will warn about though is if you are not paying attention and driving like Miss Daisy, it isn't easy to immediately drop TWO gears and 'go for it' - that delay is evident and the work around is what I call 'full kick down' which downshifts two gears rather than one. It is unsubtle!!
But then if you are paying attention and enjoying yourself, this shouldn't arise??
Get a reasonable test drive in one! Whilst lacking the improved response of PDK, the ease and effortless option does more than make up for the downside FOR ME!
Good luck.
For the avoidance of doubt, we still have Noddy! '53, '03 C4 Cab tip so ticks every 'hairdresser' box....
We use it on lots of motorway, A roads and some cracking B roads heading backwards and forwards from WC2 to GL6 (Glos) It gets driven in London and the dreaded M4/40 corridor.
Whilst PDK wins hands down, ours still puts a smile on my face almost every time I get in it. In heavy London traffic, it is effortless. Stop start/40 mph crawl on congested motorways, a breeze.
'Spirited' driving, perfectly acceptable in my view as it seems reasonably intuitive, after a few mins 'going for it', you get right back into the habit of tipping the gears on sound alone and the buttons are very easy to get used to.
One thing I will warn about though is if you are not paying attention and driving like Miss Daisy, it isn't easy to immediately drop TWO gears and 'go for it' - that delay is evident and the work around is what I call 'full kick down' which downshifts two gears rather than one. It is unsubtle!!
But then if you are paying attention and enjoying yourself, this shouldn't arise??
Get a reasonable test drive in one! Whilst lacking the improved response of PDK, the ease and effortless option does more than make up for the downside FOR ME!
Good luck.
UPDATE (in case anyone ends up in the same situation).
996 Tip - friend of a friend offered me a drive.... as suspected the wheel shift buttons would take a little getting used to, personally I'd prefer paddles, but the bigger issue for me is how the gearbox behaves. I felt like my driving style and the gearboxes were at odds.... either I'd need to adapt or go to manual mode and I think ultimately it's not for me.
XKR - Turned up to look at one but instantly noticed that the rear seats not viable really for my kids; worse than a 911. You won't get anyone with legs behind the drivers seat and I'm only 5 ft 7. Since I needed 4 seats, and since I was there anyway.....
XFR - I was persuaded to look at one of these. Sounded great, looked great, cabin is actually very sensible; downsides? handling not as sharp, the traction control on wet&greasy backroads is frankly a bit scary - more than partial throttle on a greasy spot had the rears spinning and if you had any lock on the car needed a fast correction.... not predictable like the 996 at all, just snapped out. Steering also had a vague feel to it. Surprised, reviews have generally rated this car good enough even for track work (!!) but I wouldn't take it to somewhere like Combe!
Golf R - bit of a left field one this, well outside the crosshop usual and cheapest examples at the top end of my budget.... I reasoned that with similar weight, footprint and dimensions (albeit AWD) this should be a hoot and having never driven AWD on anything other than a 4x4 I was curious how it would pan out. Special it ain't, by all accounts, but it is capable according to reviews so I ought to at least take a look. Tried to secure a test drive this weekend but first dealer was being a tosspot (no test drive without arranging finances first?! who talks figures before even trying a car when buying used?) and ran out of time to sort another as I only had one day to play.
E92 M3 - still to get around to this one; again, lots of reluctance to offer test drives from the dealers.... really don't get it, it's not like I'm going to be doing doughnuts in the carpark.
996 Tip - friend of a friend offered me a drive.... as suspected the wheel shift buttons would take a little getting used to, personally I'd prefer paddles, but the bigger issue for me is how the gearbox behaves. I felt like my driving style and the gearboxes were at odds.... either I'd need to adapt or go to manual mode and I think ultimately it's not for me.
XKR - Turned up to look at one but instantly noticed that the rear seats not viable really for my kids; worse than a 911. You won't get anyone with legs behind the drivers seat and I'm only 5 ft 7. Since I needed 4 seats, and since I was there anyway.....
XFR - I was persuaded to look at one of these. Sounded great, looked great, cabin is actually very sensible; downsides? handling not as sharp, the traction control on wet&greasy backroads is frankly a bit scary - more than partial throttle on a greasy spot had the rears spinning and if you had any lock on the car needed a fast correction.... not predictable like the 996 at all, just snapped out. Steering also had a vague feel to it. Surprised, reviews have generally rated this car good enough even for track work (!!) but I wouldn't take it to somewhere like Combe!
Golf R - bit of a left field one this, well outside the crosshop usual and cheapest examples at the top end of my budget.... I reasoned that with similar weight, footprint and dimensions (albeit AWD) this should be a hoot and having never driven AWD on anything other than a 4x4 I was curious how it would pan out. Special it ain't, by all accounts, but it is capable according to reviews so I ought to at least take a look. Tried to secure a test drive this weekend but first dealer was being a tosspot (no test drive without arranging finances first?! who talks figures before even trying a car when buying used?) and ran out of time to sort another as I only had one day to play.
E92 M3 - still to get around to this one; again, lots of reluctance to offer test drives from the dealers.... really don't get it, it's not like I'm going to be doing doughnuts in the carpark.
Got to drive an M3 this weekend (to be precise, this one):
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
Above what I wanted to pay but I managed to juggle a few things to make this work (sadly not enough to spring for a 997 Gen 2 with PDK, but still).
It's everything that I was expecting; very quick, loves revs and has very good steering feel. Gearbox is good in automatic mode but better in manual with very quick response to paddles; also surprisingly good in traffic (was expecting some shunting in traffic but no dramas at all). You can feel there is more weight to it, but it wears that extra weight well with no real body roll or other issues....
I wished I'd gone straight to it now rather than messing around with the Jags
Need to check the fine details now (sales guy didn't have all of the history for the 1K running in service etc available, and I wanted to check if I could do better on my own finance) but I think if it isn't this one it'll be one very much like it!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...
Above what I wanted to pay but I managed to juggle a few things to make this work (sadly not enough to spring for a 997 Gen 2 with PDK, but still).
It's everything that I was expecting; very quick, loves revs and has very good steering feel. Gearbox is good in automatic mode but better in manual with very quick response to paddles; also surprisingly good in traffic (was expecting some shunting in traffic but no dramas at all). You can feel there is more weight to it, but it wears that extra weight well with no real body roll or other issues....
I wished I'd gone straight to it now rather than messing around with the Jags
Need to check the fine details now (sales guy didn't have all of the history for the 1K running in service etc available, and I wanted to check if I could do better on my own finance) but I think if it isn't this one it'll be one very much like it!
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