Whats the fool proof way to make bread?
Discussion
It's a bit like "What's the best way to cook a steak" or "How to cook the perfect chip". Such simple ingredients, and yet so many pitfalls if you stuff it up in one way or another.
I've got the steak nailed down completely, the chips are about 75% there but my bread is still really really hit and miss. Sometimes fantastic, sometimes so bad that lad who rode the Hovis bicycle in the advert has to ring the Samaritans. Apparently he needs to get a carbon fibre frame and a package from Team Sky full of "yeast".
Here's the current troop of misfits about to charge over the top. I hope they can rise to the occasion.
It looks like the eggs from Alien cuddling up to my elderly gas boiler. If you have to turn your head 90 degrees to see it just blame the zero gravity.
Fingers crossed....
The thing is, it should not be fingers crossed. I love making bread as it is a relaxing thing to do and smells wonderful, but it currently gives a poor result for the effort. I use 1kg extra strong Tesco flour (high protein) with 700ml water. 2 teaspoons dried yeast, 1 teaspoon sugar, 2 teaspoons salt. Some oil, spoonful.
Have you guys got a pretty surefire way of being successful each time? Buy a breadmaker response gets a black eye !
I've got the steak nailed down completely, the chips are about 75% there but my bread is still really really hit and miss. Sometimes fantastic, sometimes so bad that lad who rode the Hovis bicycle in the advert has to ring the Samaritans. Apparently he needs to get a carbon fibre frame and a package from Team Sky full of "yeast".
Here's the current troop of misfits about to charge over the top. I hope they can rise to the occasion.
It looks like the eggs from Alien cuddling up to my elderly gas boiler. If you have to turn your head 90 degrees to see it just blame the zero gravity.
Fingers crossed....
The thing is, it should not be fingers crossed. I love making bread as it is a relaxing thing to do and smells wonderful, but it currently gives a poor result for the effort. I use 1kg extra strong Tesco flour (high protein) with 700ml water. 2 teaspoons dried yeast, 1 teaspoon sugar, 2 teaspoons salt. Some oil, spoonful.
Have you guys got a pretty surefire way of being successful each time? Buy a breadmaker response gets a black eye !
Edited by Gandahar on Thursday 26th January 19:36
It's funny that you started this thread tonight, I've just tried baking my first ever loaf of tiger bread.
Bread can be a bit hit and miss, it's just one of those things, I think.
I almost let the dough rise for too long tonight and it looked like it was just starting to collapse, so I quickly applied the tiger coating and popped it in a hot (240°) oven for 5 minutes then turned it down to 200° for about half an hour.
Like with baking cake, opening the oven door too soon can make it collapse also.
I haven't tasted it yet, but it looks good to me, so I'm off down the pub to celebrate!
Bread can be a bit hit and miss, it's just one of those things, I think.
I almost let the dough rise for too long tonight and it looked like it was just starting to collapse, so I quickly applied the tiger coating and popped it in a hot (240°) oven for 5 minutes then turned it down to 200° for about half an hour.
Like with baking cake, opening the oven door too soon can make it collapse also.
I haven't tasted it yet, but it looks good to me, so I'm off down the pub to celebrate!
Just got home and tried a slice of the tiger bread.
Maybe it was beginner's luck but, right now, it's my favourite thing in the world!
This is the recipe I almost followed:
https://www.bakingmad.com/tiger-bread-by-allinson-...
Maybe it was beginner's luck but, right now, it's my favourite thing in the world!
This is the recipe I almost followed:
https://www.bakingmad.com/tiger-bread-by-allinson-...
I don't think there is a foolproof way to make bread - dough is effectively a living, breathing organism, and there are too many variables with yeast, flour, room temperature etc.
The only way is to make lots of bread until you start to get a proper feel for how it behaves. And even then you'll have days when it just doesn't do as it's told
The only way is to make lots of bread until you start to get a proper feel for how it behaves. And even then you'll have days when it just doesn't do as it's told
I've found the following to be the key to my success in bread making:
Warmth
Goldilocks quantity of water
Kneading – duration and technique
The first thing I do when about to bake bread, is to boil a kettle of water.
I pour most of the boiled water into the large pyrex mixing bowl I use to combine the ingredients.
About 150 ml of the boiled water I pour into a measuring jug.
Then I start weighing the flour, a mixture of 350g wholemeal and 150g spelt flours is my current favourite.
I pour the boiled water out of the mixing bowl, quickly dry it, add the flour, 7g packet of instant yeast and 1 tsp salt (on the opposite side of the bowl to the yeast) – no sugar, butter, oil.
I add cold water to the measuring jug to bring the total quantity up to 400ml of warm (but not hot) water.
I mix the dry ingredients using a large metal spoon, then add 300ml of the warm water and combine with the dry ingredients.
I add more water, 1 Tsp/time as necessary, until the ball of dough comes away from the sides of the bowl, maybe 330-360ml water in total. If using white flour only, 300ml would probably be sufficient for 500g flour, give or take 1-2 Tsp.
Tip the dough out, knead for 10 mins (if it becomes stiff add 1-2 tsp water), shape it nicely, put into greased 1kg loaf tin, place in warmest part of kitchen, cover with large plastic bag and leave to rise until doubled in volume.
After 20mins I switch on the oven – highest temperature.
After another 20 – 30 mins the dough should have risen sufficiently.
Put in top of oven, after 10 mins lower temperature to 220C and bake for another 15-20 mins.
Take out of oven, remove from loaf tin and place on cooling rack.
OP why not use 500g flour until you are confident you have mastered the techniques?
With this quantity, its much easier to gauge how much water is required and to knead the dough.
I hope the above proves helpful to you.
Warmth
Goldilocks quantity of water
Kneading – duration and technique
The first thing I do when about to bake bread, is to boil a kettle of water.
I pour most of the boiled water into the large pyrex mixing bowl I use to combine the ingredients.
About 150 ml of the boiled water I pour into a measuring jug.
Then I start weighing the flour, a mixture of 350g wholemeal and 150g spelt flours is my current favourite.
I pour the boiled water out of the mixing bowl, quickly dry it, add the flour, 7g packet of instant yeast and 1 tsp salt (on the opposite side of the bowl to the yeast) – no sugar, butter, oil.
I add cold water to the measuring jug to bring the total quantity up to 400ml of warm (but not hot) water.
I mix the dry ingredients using a large metal spoon, then add 300ml of the warm water and combine with the dry ingredients.
I add more water, 1 Tsp/time as necessary, until the ball of dough comes away from the sides of the bowl, maybe 330-360ml water in total. If using white flour only, 300ml would probably be sufficient for 500g flour, give or take 1-2 Tsp.
Tip the dough out, knead for 10 mins (if it becomes stiff add 1-2 tsp water), shape it nicely, put into greased 1kg loaf tin, place in warmest part of kitchen, cover with large plastic bag and leave to rise until doubled in volume.
After 20mins I switch on the oven – highest temperature.
After another 20 – 30 mins the dough should have risen sufficiently.
Put in top of oven, after 10 mins lower temperature to 220C and bake for another 15-20 mins.
Take out of oven, remove from loaf tin and place on cooling rack.
OP why not use 500g flour until you are confident you have mastered the techniques?
With this quantity, its much easier to gauge how much water is required and to knead the dough.
I hope the above proves helpful to you.
spelt has very low quality gluten, you can't knead it much or ferment it for very long or it breaks down. I wouldn't knead it more than three or four minutes in a kenwood for example. You can cut it with something that has loads of high quality gluten like the strong candian flour that Sainsburys and Waitrose sell, which will help if you are happy with a 50% spelt loaf for example.
Otherwise I would just undermix it compared to a normal loaf.
As for an easy and very tasty loaf, this no-knead one is the best I can recommend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Ah9ES2yTU
Otherwise I would just undermix it compared to a normal loaf.
As for an easy and very tasty loaf, this no-knead one is the best I can recommend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Ah9ES2yTU
Edited by Hanglow on Thursday 16th January 16:04
Hanglow said:
spelt has very low quality gluten, you can't knead it much or ferment it for very long or it breaks down. I wouldn't knead it more than three or four minutes in a kenwood for example. You can cut it with something that has loads of high quality gluten like the strong candian flour that Sainsburys and Waitrose sell, which will help if you are happy with a 50% spelt loaf for example.
Otherwise I would just undermix it compared to a normal loaf.
As for an easy and very tasty loaf, this no-knead one is the best I can recommend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Ah9ES2yTU
Good info, thanks for that. Does that extend to not proving it too long as well? I noticed one recipe with a single raise then straight to bake, but haven't tried that method yet.Otherwise I would just undermix it compared to a normal loaf.
As for an easy and very tasty loaf, this no-knead one is the best I can recommend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Ah9ES2yTU
Edited by Hanglow on Thursday 16th January 16:04
Yeah I think so. I've tried some german bread rolls with all spelt before and the guide for them was to let the dough ferment overnight in the fridge then form the rolls without knocking back the dough too much and bake after a 20 minute rest .
I dont think you can do many days in the fridge with it as some breads can go
This is a pic of my first attempt with 100% spelt for a couple of pizza bases - they are supposed to be balls
It's what led me to find out a bit more about spelt
I dont think you can do many days in the fridge with it as some breads can go
This is a pic of my first attempt with 100% spelt for a couple of pizza bases - they are supposed to be balls
It's what led me to find out a bit more about speltHanglow said:
Yeah I think so. I've tried some german bread rolls with all spelt before and the guide for them was to let the dough ferment overnight in the fridge then form the rolls without knocking back the dough too much and bake after a 20 minute rest .
I dont think you can do many days in the fridge with it as some breads can go
This is a pic of my first attempt with 100% spelt for a couple of pizza bases - they are supposed to be balls It's what led me to find out a bit more about spelt
Holy Moly, thread resurection and something seeming to be from a dodgy silicon implant hospital in Eastern Europe....I dont think you can do many days in the fridge with it as some breads can go
This is a pic of my first attempt with 100% spelt for a couple of pizza bases - they are supposed to be balls
It's what led me to find out a bit more about speltI've not tried spelt, did I spell that right?,
I did a good batch recently of standard bread
Still hit and miss though. Got it down to 80/20 good rather than 30/70.
I'm going to attempt spilt this weekend, just for Britain and the hell of it ....
Wholemeal Spelt bread recipe here:
https://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/recipes/spelt-bread
Worthwhile reading reviews first before following recipe.
https://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/recipes/spelt-bread
Worthwhile reading reviews first before following recipe.
I’ve had a go at bread in the past with varying results. Mostly bad if I’m honest. One tip I did read is to mix the yeast into warm water rather than mixing it into the dry ingredients. Apparently, if it froths it’s a goer, if not then bin it and try a different yeast. Saves making a dough to find the yeast has all died or something...
As you can tell, I’m a seasoned (lol) baker and therefore what I just said is 100% true.
As you can tell, I’m a seasoned (lol) baker and therefore what I just said is 100% true.
Some nice results above!
I'm not sure if anyone remembers the sourdough thread on here - a few of us were making loaves and there were some good results from some of us (not me). https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... sadly the OP for that thread then passed away
I found making sourdough needed a bit too much prep and pre- baking stages to get successful, consistent results, I managed to get a good flavour and crust but never enough of a consistent rise and texture. Then sadly we went on holiday and my starter died in the fridge so I didn't bother after that.
My only forays into bread making nowadays are making a half decent but incredibly simple and quick flatbread to have with kebabs and curries. Basically mix flour, a similar weight in greek yoghurt and a pinch of salt, roll the dough out into rough pitta shapes and dry fry them on a hot cast iron skillet.
I've found substituting 50% of the plain flour with self raising gives it a nice bubbly rise. Mixing some rye flour gives it a bit more texture, as does adding half a teaspoon of cumin or fennel seeds. Apologies, I never get a chance to take pictures as they always get eaten too quickly!
I'm not sure if anyone remembers the sourdough thread on here - a few of us were making loaves and there were some good results from some of us (not me). https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... sadly the OP for that thread then passed away
I found making sourdough needed a bit too much prep and pre- baking stages to get successful, consistent results, I managed to get a good flavour and crust but never enough of a consistent rise and texture. Then sadly we went on holiday and my starter died in the fridge so I didn't bother after that.
My only forays into bread making nowadays are making a half decent but incredibly simple and quick flatbread to have with kebabs and curries. Basically mix flour, a similar weight in greek yoghurt and a pinch of salt, roll the dough out into rough pitta shapes and dry fry them on a hot cast iron skillet.
I've found substituting 50% of the plain flour with self raising gives it a nice bubbly rise. Mixing some rye flour gives it a bit more texture, as does adding half a teaspoon of cumin or fennel seeds. Apologies, I never get a chance to take pictures as they always get eaten too quickly!
I have gone back to making ordinary bread (sour dough on the back burnet for now) then focaciciaciaica or however it is said and one or two other speciality stuff.Focacicactecaia (sp?) comes out superb. Ordinary, getting good results with KISS but letting the first mix stand for 15 mins or so before the first real knead. Using olive oil as well for the surface rather than flour. Halving the salt doesn't seem to affect it either.
Turn7 said:
Throw ingredients into baking tin thing.
Press the start button.
Come back 5 hours later to lovely fresh bread...
YMMV, #PansonicFTW
Tried a couple. Not really happy with the results. Think my next purchase will be stand mixer to do the dough.Press the start button.
Come back 5 hours later to lovely fresh bread...
YMMV, #PansonicFTW
5 hours though? Standard loaf for me in around 2-3 hours tops.
Using Paul Hollywoods book 2004 "100 great breads" and one called "Than handmade loaf" by Dan Lepard. Think the latter had the tip to let the mix stand for 15 mins before the first knead. Don't tip out right away.
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