Minor parking bump - victim wants to go through insurance.
Discussion
A mate reversed in to a car when parking, damaging the wing of that car.
He admitted he did it and left his details for the other person to get in touch.
He has spoken to the person that the other car belonged to, and as it was minor damage to the wing only, offered to pay for the damage.
The other person has said they can't accept that as it is a company car and will need to go through insurance.
This seems a bit excessive to both of us, but can the other person demand this, or would it be possible to speak to the company car fleet manager/insurance company offering to pay for the damage?
He admitted he did it and left his details for the other person to get in touch.
He has spoken to the person that the other car belonged to, and as it was minor damage to the wing only, offered to pay for the damage.
The other person has said they can't accept that as it is a company car and will need to go through insurance.
This seems a bit excessive to both of us, but can the other person demand this, or would it be possible to speak to the company car fleet manager/insurance company offering to pay for the damage?
Technically, your mate is indemnified by his insurance company so the claim is presented to him and then they deal with it.
For example, if it gets to the stage where Court proceedings have to be issued, they are issued in your mate's name as the Defendant and then the insurance company deal with the claim using their agents and Solicitors.
If your mate is adamant that he doesn't want to go through insurers, get the third party to get a quote from their preferred repairer and he pays it. This is the stage where people usually see the figures concerned and decide to go through insurance.
For example, if it gets to the stage where Court proceedings have to be issued, they are issued in your mate's name as the Defendant and then the insurance company deal with the claim using their agents and Solicitors.
If your mate is adamant that he doesn't want to go through insurers, get the third party to get a quote from their preferred repairer and he pays it. This is the stage where people usually see the figures concerned and decide to go through insurance.
As a person working in the Transport industry and dealing with company cars now and again it will be an insurance matter ; the cars are not owned by the individual but the company, unless they are on a "cash" scheme ; i:e they buy their own car and maintain it from a given allowance).
Pretty much everything from the sevicing to wiper blade replacements for company cars goes through their accounting deparment. Joe Blogs getting a wing for them on the cheap won't cut it ; they have to hand the car back to the rental company (Lex in my case). Yes I know it can be done cheaper, but remember most would try to blag it for £50 from a paintshop with a job so bad even Stevie Wonder would dissaprove!
You could speak to the company, but if they are anything like Lex they would want it to go through their books ; i.e they would want to repair it themselves.
Sorry, but someone had to say it. It's a ballache I know.
Pretty much everything from the sevicing to wiper blade replacements for company cars goes through their accounting deparment. Joe Blogs getting a wing for them on the cheap won't cut it ; they have to hand the car back to the rental company (Lex in my case). Yes I know it can be done cheaper, but remember most would try to blag it for £50 from a paintshop with a job so bad even Stevie Wonder would dissaprove!
You could speak to the company, but if they are anything like Lex they would want it to go through their books ; i.e they would want to repair it themselves.
Sorry, but someone had to say it. It's a ballache I know.
I'm not sure why your mate would even be questioning it, they caused damage to someone else's car, it's entirely that car owner's choice as to how they want to get it fixed. I'd be pretty livid if someone who damaged my car then had the cheek to try to dictate to me how I should have it fixed, presumably just so they could lie to their insurers about their accident history at renewal.
charltjr said:
I'm not sure why your mate would even be questioning it, they caused damage to someone else's car, it's entirely that car owner's choice as to how they want to get it fixed. I'd be pretty livid if someone who damaged my car then had the cheek to try to dictate to me how I should have it fixed, presumably just so they could lie to their insurers about their accident history at renewal.
I don't think the OP was wanting to dictate the terms of the repair. All they wanted to know is whether the bill could be sent directly to him rather than his insurance company?CaptainCosworth said:
I don't think the OP was wanting to dictate the terms of the repair. All they wanted to know is whether the bill could be sent directly to him rather than his insurance company?
Absolutely. The tp is entitled to go thru insurance, and the person causing the damage is entitled not to. So long as the tp insurers get paid by someone, that's all that matters. TwigtheWonderkid said:
Absolutely. The tp is entitled to go thru insurance, and the person causing the damage is entitled not to. So long as the tp insurers get paid by someone, that's all that matters.
That's my understanding, too.We seem to be having two conversations in parallel here.
The first, can the company car driver do something other than go through their (or the company's) insurance? Answer seems to be no, but this isn't actually what the OP is asking.
That's the second question. The OP's friend is liable for the damage, is willing to pay for it (and let's assume the hire car and what have you as well): Can he be forced to have his insurance company deal with it rather than meeting his obligations himself?
While I bet the insurance companies would love that to be the case, it doesn't mean it is. Can anyone give a properly referenced answer as to why, if the other guy's insurer says "you owe us a grand for XYZ", he can't just give them the money?
Not whether he should, whether he has to declare the incident, or whether the numbers add up to do so. Just is he allowed to do it, perhaps because he felt like doing so today?
InitialDave said:
Not whether he should, whether he has to declare the incident, or whether the numbers add up to do so. Just is he allowed to do it, perhaps because he felt like doing so today?
Allowed to do what? Settle direct with the company? That's not his choice.He can certainly approach the TP and ask to do so, but the TP is under no obligation whatsoever to agree. Would the company do so? It depends on their procedure. Back when I had a car provided by my employers all incidents had to be declared to the company's insurers regardless of fault. YMMV. There was nothing to be gained by doing private deals because deliberately failing to declare was not an option the company would consider risking. If the car is leased, even less chance.
If you mean could he settle direct with the company's insurer. I don't know but what would be the point? It could well come back to bite him in the a**e later on.
Yes your friend can pay himself. Yes the company car driver may have to go via their insurers but your friend can still then settle directly with their insurers. Once its at this point you do have to ask why would you, as you still have to declare a 100% fault claim against you at your renewal time, its just you paid it instead of your own insurers...
Yes he can pay the third party insurers direct. I am not even sure he needs to give the third party his insurance details as long as he has given his name and address as a point of contact.
I was hit by an old biddy and swapped details with her. Those sh#t (hindsight) accident handling companys dealt with my claim and I never once got my insurers involved.
Ignore the whingers and by the book types. What most of them are overlooking is the vast number of gypsy scammers that scrape your vehicle in a car park and just drive off. The naysayers are probably related to the nincompoops that refused to serve my wife and I at a private motorway service station because the till was broken.......
"We have procedures"..... - what procedures that mean if the till is broken you will serve nobody but all three of you will still insist on being paid for doing nothing all day ???
Good luck.
Pip
Ps I am sure that you will find that ALL those that insist on going through their insurance put a report and claim in every time their wing mirror is scratched or knocked off rather than just getting it sorted themselves.
I was hit by an old biddy and swapped details with her. Those sh#t (hindsight) accident handling companys dealt with my claim and I never once got my insurers involved.
Ignore the whingers and by the book types. What most of them are overlooking is the vast number of gypsy scammers that scrape your vehicle in a car park and just drive off. The naysayers are probably related to the nincompoops that refused to serve my wife and I at a private motorway service station because the till was broken.......
"We have procedures"..... - what procedures that mean if the till is broken you will serve nobody but all three of you will still insist on being paid for doing nothing all day ???
Good luck.
Pip
Ps I am sure that you will find that ALL those that insist on going through their insurance put a report and claim in every time their wing mirror is scratched or knocked off rather than just getting it sorted themselves.
Edited by Pip1968 on Friday 27th January 23:22
Strange post Pip and weird reference to the service station. Anyway this 'just sorting it yourself' mantra jars a fair bit against your use of a claims company (even if you wouldn't again) 
but presumably you declare that accident and claim on renewal rather than being one of these scammers?
but presumably you declare that accident and claim on renewal rather than being one of these scammers?Pip1968 said:
Yes he can pay the third party insurers direct. I am not even sure he needs to give the third party his insurance details as long as he has given his name and address as a point of contact.
I was hit by an old biddy and swapped details with her. Those sh#t (hindsight) accident handling companys dealt with my claim and I never once got my insurers involved.
Ignore the whingers and by the book types. What most of them are overlooking is the vast number of gypsy scammers that scrape your vehicle in a car park and just drive off. The naysayers are probably related to the nincompoops that refused to serve my wife and I at a private motorway service station because the till was broken.......
"We have procedures"..... - what procedures that mean if the till is broken you will serve nobody but all three of you will still insist on being paid for doing nothing all day ???
Good luck.
Pip
Ps I am sure that you will find that ALL those that insist on going through their insurance put a report and claim in every time their wing mirror is scratched or knocked off rather than just getting it sorted themselves.
You obviously have no idea about having a company car. Try getting a knocked off wing mirror sorted yourself and you are very likely to find yourself at the receiving end of disciplinary procedures potentially ending up with a P45 and a bad reference. Companies have Standard Operating Procedures, AKA SOPs, which every employee must obey and deviating from an SOP is usually a disciplinary offence. SOPs often cover things in minute detail and using your example of a knocked off wing mirror, most SOPs would define that as the car being deemed unroadworthy. If you're not going to let your company know, you either need to keep going to your business appointments or turn up at the head office with a damaged car. If you then get involved in another accident, especially one which could be caused by the missing mirror, you'll be in serious trouble with the company: Why didn't you call the insurance/fleet manager when the mirror was knocked off? Why were you driving an uroadworthy car? Why didn't you inform your manager? Why didn't you do what the SOP tells you to do?I was hit by an old biddy and swapped details with her. Those sh#t (hindsight) accident handling companys dealt with my claim and I never once got my insurers involved.
Ignore the whingers and by the book types. What most of them are overlooking is the vast number of gypsy scammers that scrape your vehicle in a car park and just drive off. The naysayers are probably related to the nincompoops that refused to serve my wife and I at a private motorway service station because the till was broken.......
"We have procedures"..... - what procedures that mean if the till is broken you will serve nobody but all three of you will still insist on being paid for doing nothing all day ???
Good luck.
Pip
Ps I am sure that you will find that ALL those that insist on going through their insurance put a report and claim in every time their wing mirror is scratched or knocked off rather than just getting it sorted themselves.
Edited by Pip1968 on Friday 27th January 23:22
Not doing it "by the book" is a risk to their job and livelihood; why on earth should anyone expect a total stranger to risk their job for someone who damaged their car is beyond me.
Pretty much the same applies to your other example too. Let's assume they sold you the coffee, and a 100 other people too while they're waiting for the tills to go back online. At £2.50 a pop minimum, they'll have £250 in cash which hasn't gone through the books. They can't just put that in the till as the books will not add up and they can't just put 100 coffes through the till as it will look suspicious. If they don't put it in the till and keep it, they'll be stealing from the company. It's a no-win situation for the staff hence company procedures about this sort of stuff which the employees MUST follow otherwise they'll get the sack while you're sipping your skinny mochacino with extra chocolate sprinkles. And yes, while they're at work, they must be paid. If they don't get paid, the company will be breaking the law. On hundreds of occasions, I was paid to be present in case my skills were needed and on many of these occasions, they were not. Do you think that I shouldn't have been paid if I hadn't been needed all day?
I don't know if you jst come up with this stuff without even thinking about it or whether you really do need to hold hands with someone to make a synapse, but it may be worth your while to try to put yourself in the position of the person standing opposite you every now and then.
QuickQuack said:
Pip1968 said:
Yes he can pay the third party insurers direct. I am not even sure he needs to give the third party his insurance details as long as he has given his name and address as a point of contact.
I was hit by an old biddy and swapped details with her. Those sh#t (hindsight) accident handling companys dealt with my claim and I never once got my insurers involved.
Ignore the whingers and by the book types. What most of them are overlooking is the vast number of gypsy scammers that scrape your vehicle in a car park and just drive off. The naysayers are probably related to the nincompoops that refused to serve my wife and I at a private motorway service station because the till was broken.......
"We have procedures"..... - what procedures that mean if the till is broken you will serve nobody but all three of you will still insist on being paid for doing nothing all day ???
Good luck.
Pip
Ps I am sure that you will find that ALL those that insist on going through their insurance put a report and claim in every time their wing mirror is scratched or knocked off rather than just getting it sorted themselves.
You obviously have no idea about having a company car. Try getting a knocked off wing mirror sorted yourself and you are very likely to find yourself at the receiving end of disciplinary procedures potentially ending up with a P45 and a bad reference. Companies have Standard Operating Procedures, AKA SOPs, which every employee must obey and deviating from an SOP is usually a disciplinary offence. SOPs often cover things in minute detail and using your example of a knocked off wing mirror, most SOPs would define that as the car being deemed unroadworthy. If you're not going to let your company know, you either need to keep going to your business appointments or turn up at the head office with a damaged car. If you then get involved in another accident, especially one which could be caused by the missing mirror, you'll be in serious trouble with the company: Why didn't you call the insurance/fleet manager when the mirror was knocked off? Why were you driving an uroadworthy car? Why didn't you inform your manager? Why didn't you do what the SOP tells you to do?I was hit by an old biddy and swapped details with her. Those sh#t (hindsight) accident handling companys dealt with my claim and I never once got my insurers involved.
Ignore the whingers and by the book types. What most of them are overlooking is the vast number of gypsy scammers that scrape your vehicle in a car park and just drive off. The naysayers are probably related to the nincompoops that refused to serve my wife and I at a private motorway service station because the till was broken.......
"We have procedures"..... - what procedures that mean if the till is broken you will serve nobody but all three of you will still insist on being paid for doing nothing all day ???
Good luck.
Pip
Ps I am sure that you will find that ALL those that insist on going through their insurance put a report and claim in every time their wing mirror is scratched or knocked off rather than just getting it sorted themselves.
Edited by Pip1968 on Friday 27th January 23:22
Not doing it "by the book" is a risk to their job and livelihood; why on earth should anyone expect a total stranger to risk their job for someone who damaged their car is beyond me.
Pretty much the same applies to your other example too. Let's assume they sold you the coffee, and a 100 other people too while they're waiting for the tills to go back online. At £2.50 a pop minimum, they'll have £250 in cash which hasn't gone through the books. They can't just put that in the till as the books will not add up and they can't just put 100 coffes through the till as it will look suspicious. If they don't put it in the till and keep it, they'll be stealing from the company. It's a no-win situation for the staff hence company procedures about this sort of stuff which the employees MUST follow otherwise they'll get the sack while you're sipping your skinny mochacino with extra chocolate sprinkles. And yes, while they're at work, they must be paid. If they don't get paid, the company will be breaking the law. On hundreds of occasions, I was paid to be present in case my skills were needed and on many of these occasions, they were not. Do you think that I shouldn't have been paid if I hadn't been needed all day?
I don't know if you jst come up with this stuff without even thinking about it or whether you really do need to hold hands with someone to make a synapse, but it may be worth your while to try to put yourself in the position of the person standing opposite you every now and then.
InitialDave said:
Can anyone give a properly referenced answer as to why, if the other guy's insurer says "you owe us a grand for XYZ", he can't just give them the money?
It's basic law of tort. All an insurance policy does is cover your liability to other parties, if you want them to. It's not compulsory to get them to pay. If you damage someone's property, you owe the money to the person who owns it (or perhaps whoever repairs it.) There's no law specifying who has to pay it, as long as someone on your behalf does. You can pay, your insurers can pay, your auntie Mabel can pay. Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff