RS and Turbo S track performance identical BUT.............

[RDMcG]

New EVO video shows basically no difference from two very different cars on the track....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqCQfuLtVxs

At original prices , a performance bargain I would say....


Until I saw THIS...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I344iiAK4IY&fe...

Even with a traditional manual shift, Sport Auto who do my favourite tests concluded that the Vette is almost as fast as the RS. A serious track car at a much lower price.

[hondansx]

Of course, long term the RS is the cheapest as long as you have the capital to begin with!

I am impressed by the Turbo, but the reality is it will get slower lap, after lap. For me though, it justifies bringing back the manual to emphasise the GT3 and RS is about the enjoyment of driving more than just speed.

Pretty amazing from the Vette given it's not even the track model.

[s2000db]

Mind you, if the Turbo was on the same tyres as the RS, it would be even quicker!

[boxsey]

I've had the pleasure of being driven round Spa in a friend's vette (previous model). It is indeed a mighty thing and was on the same pace as GT3s. However it had to retire on day 2 because the front brake discs had sheared in half! So maybe not as durable as a GT3 out of the box.

[LaSource]

You get all types:

- those that want to be the fastest
- those that want the most driver enjoyment (whatever that means to you)
- those that want to be in the latest, most 'desirable' model / want the glamour in the pitlane
- those that have different needs for their choice of car (eg turbo more practical, daily driver, etc)
- those that may not (yet) have the experience to know the difference
- ...etc

...the fun is when one type meets another type and starts to suggest their car is better than the other person's, and an excitable discussion ensues

Personally I guess it is a good thing that there is choice for each type.

[turbobloke]

LaSource said:

You get all types:

- those that want to be the fastest
- those that want the most driver enjoyment (whatever that means to you)
- those that want to be in the latest, most 'desirable' model / want the glamour in the pitlane
- those that have different needs for their choice of car (eg turbo more practical, daily driver, etc)
- those that may not (yet) have the experience to know the difference
- ...etc

...the fun is when one type meets another type and starts to suggest their car is better than the other person's, and an excitable discussion ensues

Personally I guess it is a good thing that there is choice for each type.

Agreed.

This RS / Turbo S / Vette story will perhaps be of interest to those who spend a lot of time on track, but that's not me. A lap time is irrelevant, as it's not how fast it goes that matters to me but how it goes fast...a point already made by cmoose. This is also your second point unless I'm mistaken.

I found out some time ago that I find the sensation from higher order accelerations available from a Turbo S (but not a normally aspirated RS) to be addictively enjoyable when combined with just the right amount of lag i.e. some but not much. Anticipation, and all that.

As a result it will never matter to me how quick any car is around the (insert circuit of choice) as I'm plotting my return to those higher order accelerations and enjoyment of how it goes fast rather than how fast it goes.

For those with different priorities, the situation is equally obvious! It's good to have such choices...your final point and a key point at that.

[SRT Hellcat]

The Yanks have upped their game quite a bit. The new Z28 Camaro set a blistering time around the ring. Thankfully they do not seem to be too hung up on reducing the size of their V8's. I have no interest in hybrids, smaller capacity V8's with twin turbo's or any of the Eco Boost rubbish including the new Ford GT. There is no substitute for cubic capacity.
Whilst my Hellcat is no svelte lightweight track weapon. It sure brings a big smile to my face whenever I fire it up. I did a terminal velocity day last year. Hot lapped the car. Ran mostly 187's a 188 and a 189. No brake fade. Traction on concrete was the biggest issue. But no burnouts allowed.
In April at the New York auto show Dodge are launching the Demon. A 9 second street car. What great times we are living in. Should be well over 800hp with a warranty for less than £75K. Awesome

[nickfrog]

LaSource said:

Personally I guess it is a good thing that there is choice for each type.

Exactly. I find it ever so simple a concept to understand : different people like different things.

That first vid really made me look forward to Anglesey later this year! At a much lower pace though.

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 31st January 12:48

[sparta6]

LaSource said:

You get all types:

- those that want to be the fastest
- those that want the most driver enjoyment (whatever that means to you)
- those that want to be in the latest, most 'desirable' model / want the glamour in the pitlane
- those that have different needs for their choice of car (eg turbo more practical, daily driver, etc)
- those that may not (yet) have the experience to know the difference
- ...etc

...the fun is when one type meets another type and starts to suggest their car is better than the other person's, and an excitable discussion ensues

Personally I guess it is a good thing that there is choice for each type.

Post of the week

[RDMcG]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

For me the lap time is more as an indication of handling than anything else. I have little interest in 0-60 times for instance. I am very well aware that the people who achieve these times are normally professionals with both extensive knowledge of the specific tracks used and a level of skill well beyond my own. Furthermore the tests are normally done in perfect conditions with everything perfect in the car and a limited amount of fuel.

Thus trying to match a laptime for a normal driver is not possible. However it does give me a sense in crude terms of the handling. I would not make a purchase decision based on lap times..Its just one of the inputs. There are numerous other decisions assuming it is a car bought for performance and track days. We have had the endless paddle shift vs manual discussions for instance. I enjoy both of them as it happens. One of the reasons I posted the thread though was just how amazing the Vette perforance is for the money and that difference is even bigger in the US market.

Edited by RDMcG on Tuesday 31st January 19:39

[AndrewD]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Who says it "matters"?
It is just a very minor interesting comparison that two 911 model variants, clearly very different in many ways, happen to complete one dry lap of a particular circuit in the same time.
To some people they would say, well done the heavier more powerful road car and others would say make it 2 laps or 10 laps.
There's surely plenty of information already on the web to inform you how each car drives.

[AndrewD]

Why are we even discussing it?
Well, because you asked why it matters

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The how and the how fast are closely linked. Most very fast cars around a track are great to drive as they tend to have it all -ie good handling, braking and plenty of power. Sure you can get 1000hp buses, and 125hp Caterhams, but, as rule, lap times give an indication that the engineers behind any given car have come up with a well balanced package. That said a very fast lap time tells you little about how a car feels - other than it is probably better than average - but then no metric does that.

As for differences in times I can definitely feel a second or two on my local track in a lap time of 1:17. Not surprising given that equates to over a hundred yards on the straight - a big difference in one lap if you are racing.

But, of course, lap times are just one of many metrics for appraising a car and should be considered in the round. That is why road tests contain subjective prose as well as hard data like 0-60 and lap times. I think most people get that - even Top Gear / Grand Tour / PH massive

Edited by drmark on Wednesday 1st February 05:32

[DT398]

^^This... I personally think that the 991RS is much closer to the laptime/driver enjoyment sweet spot than the Turbo S but we are not all the same! On some tracks, the 996GT3 is as close as you will ever get IMHO. For others it might be a 2.7RS, Caterham. Lotus whatever......

[OldBob]

s2000db said:

Mind you, if the Turbo was on the same tyres as the RS, it would be even quicker!

Indeed.
Jethro B even mentions the tyre type disadvantage in the individual TTS video
991.1 TTS was on standard road rubber Pirelli P Zero's
GT3RS was on Pilot Sport Cup 2's IIRC - either way it comes std with track-ish rubber

And did I mention the TTS was 991.1

[OldBob]

hondansx said:

Of course, long term the RS is the cheapest as long as you have the capital to begin with!

I am impressed by the Turbo, but the reality is it will get slower lap, after lap. For me though, it justifies bringing back the manual to emphasise the GT3 and RS is about the enjoyment of driving more than just speed.

Pretty amazing from the Vette given it's not even the track model.

"...but the reality is it will get slower lap, after lap..."
Why?
Iff Tyres? I get that.
What else are you thinking?

[Terminator X]

SRT Hellcat said:

Whilst my Hellcat is no svelte lightweight track weapon. It sure brings a big smile to my face whenever I fire it up. I did a terminal velocity day last year. Hot lapped the car. Ran mostly 187's a 188 and a 189. No brake fade. Traction on concrete was the biggest issue. But no burnouts allowed.
In April at the New York auto show Dodge are launching the Demon. A 9 second street car. What great times we are living in. Should be well over 800hp with a warranty for less than £75K. Awesome

Red one of these parked up near me regularly, looks absolutely glorious! Not heard it start up yet but I can only imagine

TX.

[cayman-black]

Could not watch all of the Vette video as those two passenger dash vents where driving me mad OCD.

[AndrewD]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Well you can speak for nobody but yourself. I'm discussing it because you said you don't get it.
Simply, there isn't anything to get. It just is what it is.
If you can't get your head around that, as you clearly can't, well have a nice evening.

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You are over analysing my reply. I qualified my statement regarding feel in my original post. As for "great to drive" - a car does not always have to have lots of feel to be a great drive. Have you ever hustled a GTR around a track? Not my cup of tea, but a lot of fun nevertheless. I like a varied diet, hence my rather eclectic mix of cars over the years