PAS Steering Question
Discussion
Hi,
You haven't mentioned the pump, is it full of fluid, creating proper pressure? Fluid easy to check, pressure harder.
What is it like with the wheels off the ground, does it turn freely from lock to lock without the engine running and with the engine running? Is there a difference?
Does it make the "swishing" sound when away from the center position?
Regards,
Brian
no longer with a Red 350i
You haven't mentioned the pump, is it full of fluid, creating proper pressure? Fluid easy to check, pressure harder.
What is it like with the wheels off the ground, does it turn freely from lock to lock without the engine running and with the engine running? Is there a difference?
Does it make the "swishing" sound when away from the center position?
Regards,
Brian
no longer with a Red 350i
I'd say it's nothing to do with the power steering; self centering is all about the wheel geometry. I'd be looking very closely at the suspension bushes and looking for differences from side to side. My car was transformed when I sorted out the tie rod bushes, they were new but there was still too much play where the forward end bolts to the chassis, I had to pack them out to take up the play. If you have play in these bushes then the tracking is out of control so having the car 'aligned' is pointless. It made the steering much lighter when I sorted out those bushes as well.
Don't discount rear suspension bushes, they can have a surprising effect on the feel of the steering when they have play in them.
By the sound of it you have something seriously wrong so it should be easy to spot, although with a TVR it's likely to be a combination of problems and you can't be sure that it didn't leave the factory with some kind of steering issue... all you can do is work through it methodically. I also had problems with ride height, it was lower on the driver's side. Sorting that out made a huge difference to the feel of the car.
Don't discount rear suspension bushes, they can have a surprising effect on the feel of the steering when they have play in them.
By the sound of it you have something seriously wrong so it should be easy to spot, although with a TVR it's likely to be a combination of problems and you can't be sure that it didn't leave the factory with some kind of steering issue... all you can do is work through it methodically. I also had problems with ride height, it was lower on the driver's side. Sorting that out made a huge difference to the feel of the car.
Hi Andrew
I agree with Martin, If you have had the rack worked on and all your bushes and joints are okay then the important thing is to get the geo done...You may have negative toe..."Negative toe decreases straight line stability as a result. Any slight change in direction will cause the car to hint towards one direction or the other".
Four wheel geometry is always advisable after a refurbishment of a steering rack....
On the point of having a stiff feeling PAS I have to say that on the 280i with the electric PAS pump the steering felt no different to the original unit which was a bit disappointing but the main point of fitting it was to make room for the blower.
Modern steering columns have a driven column and rack....TBH I personally would not like light steering on a Wedge... I feel some feed back is needed....
Hope you sort it..
Ziga
I agree with Martin, If you have had the rack worked on and all your bushes and joints are okay then the important thing is to get the geo done...You may have negative toe..."Negative toe decreases straight line stability as a result. Any slight change in direction will cause the car to hint towards one direction or the other".
Four wheel geometry is always advisable after a refurbishment of a steering rack....
On the point of having a stiff feeling PAS I have to say that on the 280i with the electric PAS pump the steering felt no different to the original unit which was a bit disappointing but the main point of fitting it was to make room for the blower.
Modern steering columns have a driven column and rack....TBH I personally would not like light steering on a Wedge... I feel some feed back is needed....
Hope you sort it..
Ziga
The Hatter said:
I'd say it's nothing to do with the power steering; self centering is all about the wheel geometry. I'd be looking very closely at the suspension bushes and looking for differences from side to side. My car was transformed when I sorted out the tie rod bushes, they were new but there was still too much play where the forward end bolts to the chassis, I had to pack them out to take up the play. If you have play in these bushes then the tracking is out of control so having the car 'aligned' is pointless. It made the steering much lighter when I sorted out those bushes as well.
Don't discount rear suspension bushes, they can have a surprising effect on the feel of the steering when they have play in them.
By the sound of it you have something seriously wrong so it should be easy to spot, although with a TVR it's likely to be a combination of problems and you can't be sure that it didn't leave the factory with some kind of steering issue... all you can do is work through it methodically. I also had problems with ride height, it was lower on the driver's side. Sorting that out made a huge difference to the feel of the car.
I am suspecting the Tie Rods need adjustment as I changed over the bushes without getting them checked after. Straight line stability is very good and the road holding is excellent bearing in mind I had to sort out the problems I had initially after fitting the infamous coil over conversion kit. Turning to the right is ok its turning left that feels heavier and its this side that does not self centre. I might invest in changing over the upper and lower bushes after I've had the caster and king pin angles checked. Its the agro of getting the bushes in and out I'm not looking forward to though without a press...Don't discount rear suspension bushes, they can have a surprising effect on the feel of the steering when they have play in them.
By the sound of it you have something seriously wrong so it should be easy to spot, although with a TVR it's likely to be a combination of problems and you can't be sure that it didn't leave the factory with some kind of steering issue... all you can do is work through it methodically. I also had problems with ride height, it was lower on the driver's side. Sorting that out made a huge difference to the feel of the car.
The left hand suspension tends to wear more than the right as it's running along on the kerb side of the road. I'd be looking very hard at the bushes... don't assume just because they are new that they are OK. I got some new bushes from a South Wales outfit that were absolute s
te, they failed in months - I had to seek out Ford originals (other than the tie rods where I went to polyurethane). There's no point looking at alignment until the bushes are perfect; and things like the tie rod bush positions don't necessarily need re-adjusting when you fit new bushes as it's most likely that the adjustment positions are those that it had when it left the factory, so putting in new bushes restores the factory settings. Nothing is certain with a TVR though!
te, they failed in months - I had to seek out Ford originals (other than the tie rods where I went to polyurethane). There's no point looking at alignment until the bushes are perfect; and things like the tie rod bush positions don't necessarily need re-adjusting when you fit new bushes as it's most likely that the adjustment positions are those that it had when it left the factory, so putting in new bushes restores the factory settings. Nothing is certain with a TVR though!Edited by The Hatter on Friday 3rd February 19:14
The Hatter said:
The left hand suspension tends to wear more than the right as it's running along on the kerb side of the road. I'd be looking very hard at the bushes... don't assume just because they are new that they are OK. I got some new bushes from a South Wales outfit that were absolute ste, they failed in months - I had to seek out Ford originals (other than the tie rods where I went to polyurethane). There's no point looking at alignment until the bushes are perfect; and things like the tie rod bush positions don't necessarily need re-adjusting when you fit new bushes as it's most likely that the adjustment positions are those that it had when it left the factory, so putting in new bushes restores the factory settings. Nothing is certain with a TVR though!
There's no harm in changing in the bushes I've got some ford originals on their way so will change them all uppers and lowers. I've just put on new ball joints so that will also help too.te, they failed in months - I had to seek out Ford originals (other than the tie rods where I went to polyurethane). There's no point looking at alignment until the bushes are perfect; and things like the tie rod bush positions don't necessarily need re-adjusting when you fit new bushes as it's most likely that the adjustment positions are those that it had when it left the factory, so putting in new bushes restores the factory settings. Nothing is certain with a TVR though!Edited by The Hatter on Friday 3rd February 19:14
Interesting discovery this morning. I measured the distance from the rear wheel rim to the front wheel rim. The O/S was 94.25 inches the N/S was 94.00 inches dead. Would a quarter of inch make a difference. Either way I'm going to take off the difference on the O/S and fit new bushes and see what I get.
I just measured mine; 1/8" difference. I'd be surprised if the chassis were made to a tighter tolerance than yours from side to side, so I suspect it'll make little difference. Some cars (Renault 5 for example) were about 3" different side to side by design as they have torsion bar springs across the car.
Well I finished re-building the front end this evening. I put on New Upper & Lower Ball Joints, Upper Steering UJ, TRE's, Re-bushed wishbones, Tie rod bushes and I can honestly say it has transformed the car. I used Powerflex Blacks on the Tie Rods and standard rubber bushes on the wishbones with the effect there is no diving under braking with a much more compliant ride. The steering now has a nice feel to it and self centres. Once the car has its numbers checked on the alignment it should fine tweek things that bit more.
What I love about owning a Wedge is that they are so easy to work on saving large bucks in the process. Re-bushing is easy with the right tool and is not a job to be fearful of but definitely worth it in terms of transforming the ride...I'm a happy Wedger now!
What I love about owning a Wedge is that they are so easy to work on saving large bucks in the process. Re-bushing is easy with the right tool and is not a job to be fearful of but definitely worth it in terms of transforming the ride...I'm a happy Wedger now!
Pleased you got it sorted. I'm thinking of changing my front suspension bushes. I would be grateful if you would let me know what tools you needed apart from the obvious spring compressor and ball joint separator. I know I did the job decades ago on my Cortina Mk3 and I had a real job getting the bolt and the bushes out. I ended up having to drop the subframe. Do they need to be pressed out?
wedgewood said:
Pleased you got it sorted. I'm thinking of changing my front suspension bushes. I would be grateful if you would let me know what tools you needed apart from the obvious spring compressor and ball joint separator. I know I did the job decades ago on my Cortina Mk3 and I had a real job getting the bolt and the bushes out. I ended up having to drop the subframe. Do they need to be pressed out?
I've got a Steve Heath spring compressor that it is not required as I have coilovers and therefore is surplus to requirements. With regards to removing the bushes forget drilling out the rubber and cutting through the metal part of the bush. I would invest in one of these below using the larger cup as the retainer using a socket to push out and push in the new bush from QH. I borrowed mine from a workmate but having done the job myself the kit below is good enough and is cheap to buy.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Panda-Rear-Axle-Sus...
Well worth effort and you will notice the difference immediately.
The Hatter said:
Great to hear that you've got it sorted. Was there any particular bush/joint that was very tired, or were they all a little past their best?
N/S Upper Wishbone had 1 bush that separated from its inner sleeve. The lower wishbone looked ok but felt fragile. O/S looked ok but I think looks can be deceptive. But as you said, the N/S takes a lot more stress. I also noted the N/S tie rod was not as tight as the O/S. I'm happy now all that work is done and as already mentioned the ride feels so much more compliant and a lot more comfortable and controlled. Even my concerns about tapping in the upper steering uj was unfounded too....Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff