M3 values - e46 vs e9x at £15k
Discussion
Hi guys
I'm in a fortunate position to be looking at a new weekend toy. Somewhere up to £15k budget.
Looking around and the m3, a car I've always admired is falling into budget.
£13-15k buys you a low mileage and mint e46, but it also buys you a 120k ish miles e92 m3, with what is probably the last v8 in an m3....
Now, this car HAS to be depreciation proof as the money will be need in 4-5 years towards something else, this is a fun place to park the cash for now.
Undoubtedly the e46 has already reached the bottom of the price curve and is on the way up. The question is, how much further do the e9x have to fall? Could I scratch the v8 itch and then still sell on in 4 years for no loss? Or have these still a fall to go?
I'm in a fortunate position to be looking at a new weekend toy. Somewhere up to £15k budget.
Looking around and the m3, a car I've always admired is falling into budget.
£13-15k buys you a low mileage and mint e46, but it also buys you a 120k ish miles e92 m3, with what is probably the last v8 in an m3....
Now, this car HAS to be depreciation proof as the money will be need in 4-5 years towards something else, this is a fun place to park the cash for now.
Undoubtedly the e46 has already reached the bottom of the price curve and is on the way up. The question is, how much further do the e9x have to fall? Could I scratch the v8 itch and then still sell on in 4 years for no loss? Or have these still a fall to go?
Panayiotis said:
mikearwas said:
To be honest if the money is intended elsewhere and can't be lost then I certainly wouldn't be buying a car with it.
Bang on, no 'investment' is without risk....you may not lose on depreciation, but you'll definitely have to spend some money on upkeep.So, I'm left with about 450 a month 'spare' as running costs for my toy car. Fuel, insurance, maintenance etc.
I'm considering a 996 too so clearly not scared of running coats.
The toy should cover 5k miles per year max. My toy mx5 has done 9k over the last 4 years!
Would anyone like to pass comment on the actual question of depreciation curves of the two m3's mentioned??
The costs of running cannot be ignored.
I run an E92 and my latest running costs:
Oil Service - £210 at a specialist (every 7k miles)
Spark plugs - £300 at a specialist (every 30-40k miles)
Road tax - £540/year
Fuel - 20mpg in winter
Brake discs - £250 per front disc; £200 per rear disc (every 20-30k miles)
Brake pads - £100 per front set; £75 per rear set (every 10-15k miles)
Rear Tyres - £250 per tyre (every 10-12k miles)
Front Tyres - £200 per tyre (every 20k miles)
It adds up...
I run an E92 and my latest running costs:
Oil Service - £210 at a specialist (every 7k miles)
Spark plugs - £300 at a specialist (every 30-40k miles)
Road tax - £540/year
Fuel - 20mpg in winter
Brake discs - £250 per front disc; £200 per rear disc (every 20-30k miles)
Brake pads - £100 per front set; £75 per rear set (every 10-15k miles)
Rear Tyres - £250 per tyre (every 10-12k miles)
Front Tyres - £200 per tyre (every 20k miles)
It adds up...
GroundEffect said:
The costs of running cannot be ignored.
I run an E92 and my latest running costs:
Oil Service - £210 at a specialist (every 7k miles)
Spark plugs - £300 at a specialist (every 30-40k miles)
Road tax - £540/year
Fuel - 20mpg in winter
Brake discs - £250 per front disc; £200 per rear disc (every 20-30k miles)
Brake pads - £100 per front set; £75 per rear set (every 10-15k miles)
Rear Tyres - £250 per tyre (every 10-12k miles)
Front Tyres - £200 per tyre (every 20k miles)
It adds up...
Yeh, but to the tune of £5k plus a year??I run an E92 and my latest running costs:
Oil Service - £210 at a specialist (every 7k miles)
Spark plugs - £300 at a specialist (every 30-40k miles)
Road tax - £540/year
Fuel - 20mpg in winter
Brake discs - £250 per front disc; £200 per rear disc (every 20-30k miles)
Brake pads - £100 per front set; £75 per rear set (every 10-15k miles)
Rear Tyres - £250 per tyre (every 10-12k miles)
Front Tyres - £200 per tyre (every 20k miles)
It adds up...
eltax91 said:
GroundEffect said:
The costs of running cannot be ignored.
I run an E92 and my latest running costs:
Oil Service - £210 at a specialist (every 7k miles)
Spark plugs - £300 at a specialist (every 30-40k miles)
Road tax - £540/year
Fuel - 20mpg in winter
Brake discs - £250 per front disc; £200 per rear disc (every 20-30k miles)
Brake pads - £100 per front set; £75 per rear set (every 10-15k miles)
Rear Tyres - £250 per tyre (every 10-12k miles)
Front Tyres - £200 per tyre (every 20k miles)
It adds up...
Yeh, but to the tune of £5k plus a year??I run an E92 and my latest running costs:
Oil Service - £210 at a specialist (every 7k miles)
Spark plugs - £300 at a specialist (every 30-40k miles)
Road tax - £540/year
Fuel - 20mpg in winter
Brake discs - £250 per front disc; £200 per rear disc (every 20-30k miles)
Brake pads - £100 per front set; £75 per rear set (every 10-15k miles)
Rear Tyres - £250 per tyre (every 10-12k miles)
Front Tyres - £200 per tyre (every 20k miles)
It adds up...
The throttle body actuators are a weak point on this engine and seem to fail roughly every 60k miles. There's two of them at £700 each.
My E46 CSL had a one-off bill (at a specialist) of nearly £7k, and nothing in that was CSL-specific (Vanos replacement, etc). I suppose the bill could have been reduced by taking short-cuts, but just be aware you can get stung running these things. It's why so many have disappeared over the years IMO, and needs to be accounted for if you are to be guaranteed to get your money back. I would think a war-chest of maybe £3k at a minimum for something going bang outside of regular maintenance
And get some compression tests and a rear-end check done by someone who knows what they're at before purchase if at all possible
Also, 4-5 years is a long time out to be predicting values of cars. Current prices could very much be at the top for all anyone knows
And get some compression tests and a rear-end check done by someone who knows what they're at before purchase if at all possible
Also, 4-5 years is a long time out to be predicting values of cars. Current prices could very much be at the top for all anyone knows
I totally get what you mean OP...
I don't think anyone considers or expects a 2nd hand car to be totally 100% depreciation proof - but if selected carefully and wisely you can minimise the loss when you come to sell on and thus make it a fun way of eliciting enjoyment out of your cash for however long you choose to keep it. I've never really mastered the art comprehensively myself but have had some reasonably good previous efforts. A £4.5k Boxster that I had for 4 years and sold for precisely £4.5k was probably the best attempt. Now of course I spent money maintaining the thing - but adding all of those costs up missies the point entirely. As a petrol head I have always had a 'fun' vehicle (even if sometimes it was the one i drove every day!) and when one owns such a vehicle one naturally expects to have to pay ever so slightly more on servicing / upkeep than joe average in his diesel eurobox. So i'm accustomed to having to pay out slightly elevated overhead as this has been a constant ever since I was about 21yrs old.
I'm assuming you're in a similar position??? You're accustomed to shelling out X amount of dollar each year on car-related-fun and these outgoings are an entirely separate entity when it comes to doing the maths on the use of your £15k equity.
Sadly though I don't think I can offer any sort of decisive view on which would be the best bet in the whole E46 vs E92 thing. My advice would simply be don't discount either. The key in my experience is to have the widest possible range of options when looking to purchase so you have the greatest possible chance of stumbling across a true 'bargain' (usually someone who is prepared to take a substantially knocked-down offer in order to minimise getting it in the ear from their other half about having too many cars cluttering up the driveway!!!)
Don't discount a 996. Way more reliable than the internet scaremongering leads people to believe and ironically the cheaper high milers are often the safest bets as the 'window' for the more common terminal failures seems to be prior to 100k miles in cars that are more sparsely used. I recently got my hands on a fixer-upper 992 C2 manual rag-top for bottom dollar and i'm in love.
I don't think anyone considers or expects a 2nd hand car to be totally 100% depreciation proof - but if selected carefully and wisely you can minimise the loss when you come to sell on and thus make it a fun way of eliciting enjoyment out of your cash for however long you choose to keep it. I've never really mastered the art comprehensively myself but have had some reasonably good previous efforts. A £4.5k Boxster that I had for 4 years and sold for precisely £4.5k was probably the best attempt. Now of course I spent money maintaining the thing - but adding all of those costs up missies the point entirely. As a petrol head I have always had a 'fun' vehicle (even if sometimes it was the one i drove every day!) and when one owns such a vehicle one naturally expects to have to pay ever so slightly more on servicing / upkeep than joe average in his diesel eurobox. So i'm accustomed to having to pay out slightly elevated overhead as this has been a constant ever since I was about 21yrs old.
I'm assuming you're in a similar position??? You're accustomed to shelling out X amount of dollar each year on car-related-fun and these outgoings are an entirely separate entity when it comes to doing the maths on the use of your £15k equity.
Sadly though I don't think I can offer any sort of decisive view on which would be the best bet in the whole E46 vs E92 thing. My advice would simply be don't discount either. The key in my experience is to have the widest possible range of options when looking to purchase so you have the greatest possible chance of stumbling across a true 'bargain' (usually someone who is prepared to take a substantially knocked-down offer in order to minimise getting it in the ear from their other half about having too many cars cluttering up the driveway!!!)
Don't discount a 996. Way more reliable than the internet scaremongering leads people to believe and ironically the cheaper high milers are often the safest bets as the 'window' for the more common terminal failures seems to be prior to 100k miles in cars that are more sparsely used. I recently got my hands on a fixer-upper 992 C2 manual rag-top for bottom dollar and i'm in love.
Was in a similar situation with cash. Had to buy smart as I needed the money out at the end.
I bought a 64K E46 M3, manual, coupe on a private sale for £11300. Had EVERY service from new from the original supplying dealer. Excellent provenance.
Sold it a year later for £11K. Should have held out for full asking really but wanted to move on.
I've somehow now ended up 40K into a car so it's a slippery slope! Saying that, not really lost on one yet.
Good luck.
I bought a 64K E46 M3, manual, coupe on a private sale for £11300. Had EVERY service from new from the original supplying dealer. Excellent provenance.
Sold it a year later for £11K. Should have held out for full asking really but wanted to move on.
I've somehow now ended up 40K into a car so it's a slippery slope! Saying that, not really lost on one yet.
Good luck.
eltax91 said:
Hi guys
I'm in a fortunate position to be looking at a new weekend toy. Somewhere up to £15k budget.
Looking around and the m3, a car I've always admired is falling into budget.
£13-15k buys you a low mileage and mint e46, but it also buys you a 120k ish miles e92 m3, with what is probably the last v8 in an m3....
Now, this car HAS to be depreciation proof as the money will be need in 4-5 years towards something else, this is a fun place to park the cash for now.
Undoubtedly the e46 has already reached the bottom of the price curve and is on the way up. The question is, how much further do the e9x have to fall? Could I scratch the v8 itch and then still sell on in 4 years for no loss? Or have these still a fall to go?
I think you've answered your own question.I'm in a fortunate position to be looking at a new weekend toy. Somewhere up to £15k budget.
Looking around and the m3, a car I've always admired is falling into budget.
£13-15k buys you a low mileage and mint e46, but it also buys you a 120k ish miles e92 m3, with what is probably the last v8 in an m3....
Now, this car HAS to be depreciation proof as the money will be need in 4-5 years towards something else, this is a fun place to park the cash for now.
Undoubtedly the e46 has already reached the bottom of the price curve and is on the way up. The question is, how much further do the e9x have to fall? Could I scratch the v8 itch and then still sell on in 4 years for no loss? Or have these still a fall to go?
The E46 is appreciating, the E9x isn't. Consequently the most sensible 'investment' is the known quantity... the E46!
It is a bit of gamble but one worth taking imho. I've always wanted one and wish I'd done it sooner tbh.
I bought an E46 M3 1 year ago - 2002 72K miles, black with Kiwi interior, £9.5K - The chap I bought it off had looked after it, was doing about 2K miles a year and sold it for what he bought it for.
I have done 6K miles in it commuting and such and also took it to Le Mans with the boy last summer.
It has had the SMG rebuild, it has had the preventative boot floor fix, it has been well looked after - I'm chucking it in for an Insp II next month.
I might then shift it on. I too will be looking to sell it for what I paid for it
Not sure what to buy next - was thinking E92, but can't shake the awful idea of an E60 M5
Bob
I bought an E46 M3 1 year ago - 2002 72K miles, black with Kiwi interior, £9.5K - The chap I bought it off had looked after it, was doing about 2K miles a year and sold it for what he bought it for.
I have done 6K miles in it commuting and such and also took it to Le Mans with the boy last summer.
It has had the SMG rebuild, it has had the preventative boot floor fix, it has been well looked after - I'm chucking it in for an Insp II next month.
I might then shift it on. I too will be looking to sell it for what I paid for it
Not sure what to buy next - was thinking E92, but can't shake the awful idea of an E60 M5
Bob
NickCQ said:
eltax91 said:
So, I'm left with about 450 a month 'spare' as running costs for my toy car. Fuel, insurance, maintenance etc.
Feel like I'm playing devil's advocate here, but can't you lease something interesting for £450 / month if you get a decent deal?With a lease, I've got a guaranteed loss of depreciation.
eltax91 said:
NickCQ said:
eltax91 said:
So, I'm left with about 450 a month 'spare' as running costs for my toy car. Fuel, insurance, maintenance etc.
Feel like I'm playing devil's advocate here, but can't you lease something interesting for £450 / month if you get a decent deal?With a lease, I've got a guaranteed loss of depreciation.
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