Neck and shoulder trouble
Discussion
For many many years I have suffered with upper back and problems which manifests itself as extreme tightness, soreness, and severe headaches which can last for days. In the last 2 years I have also suffered from facial numbness which I am convinced is caused by all the tightness and at its worst I can also find it painful to swallow.
Over this time I have seen my GP who only wanted to subscribe me drugs (last resort yet to be tried), physio, chiropractor, acupuncturist and massage therapists. All except the GP have helped me to manage my pain and discomfort but I would like to be able to manage this myself.
I understand now that this condition is caused by a combination of factors, including having a desk job and generally being highly strung by nature. I am dealing with the whole tension thing through exercise (have a rower at home and doing around 30-40km per week, and some mild weight training), mindfulness and have done some yoga in the past.
The physical side I have been working on my posture and doing lots of stretching but this only gets me so far. It is mostly my trapezius and levator scapulae which causes the bad headaches but generally all my muscles are tight.
Also after 20 years (slow learner) I have realised that this can only be resolved by me. Therapy can help to a certain degree but only to help me manage the pain and discomfort and to be honest I am sick of paying £1000s per year. Yet after all of this it slowly gets worse!
HELP! Where do I go from here?
Over this time I have seen my GP who only wanted to subscribe me drugs (last resort yet to be tried), physio, chiropractor, acupuncturist and massage therapists. All except the GP have helped me to manage my pain and discomfort but I would like to be able to manage this myself.
I understand now that this condition is caused by a combination of factors, including having a desk job and generally being highly strung by nature. I am dealing with the whole tension thing through exercise (have a rower at home and doing around 30-40km per week, and some mild weight training), mindfulness and have done some yoga in the past.
The physical side I have been working on my posture and doing lots of stretching but this only gets me so far. It is mostly my trapezius and levator scapulae which causes the bad headaches but generally all my muscles are tight.
Also after 20 years (slow learner) I have realised that this can only be resolved by me. Therapy can help to a certain degree but only to help me manage the pain and discomfort and to be honest I am sick of paying £1000s per year. Yet after all of this it slowly gets worse!
HELP! Where do I go from here?
I'm surprised a competent physio was unable to resolve your problem if it's posture related.
I would have expected a regime of stretches and exercise that, done on a regular basis, would resolve this with muscle strengthening and posture correcting stretches etc. It worked for me (along with some help from a chiropractor along the way)
Did the physio help ? Did you do what they said & do you still do it ? I still do the stretches my physio and chiro recommended and that was >10 years ago. A regular professional massage can also do wonders.
Having a desk bound job means you need some compensating habits to assist (regular getting up and leaving the desk, posture at the desk, ensuring everything at the right height / distance etc). I know a few who've managed to change their desks to have a standing only computer, so when they have to be on the screen, they stand. Made a massive difference for one person I know so might be worth considering.
I'm no Dr, just someone who has also suffered a bit with "stiff" / " aching back"
I would have expected a regime of stretches and exercise that, done on a regular basis, would resolve this with muscle strengthening and posture correcting stretches etc. It worked for me (along with some help from a chiropractor along the way)
Did the physio help ? Did you do what they said & do you still do it ? I still do the stretches my physio and chiro recommended and that was >10 years ago. A regular professional massage can also do wonders.
Having a desk bound job means you need some compensating habits to assist (regular getting up and leaving the desk, posture at the desk, ensuring everything at the right height / distance etc). I know a few who've managed to change their desks to have a standing only computer, so when they have to be on the screen, they stand. Made a massive difference for one person I know so might be worth considering.
I'm no Dr, just someone who has also suffered a bit with "stiff" / " aching back"
I have similar upper body issues neck shoulders upper back and jaw, I've been feeling lousy for about 18months.
Had various tests that have come back clear bloods etc also had an MRI which was unremarkable.
Speaking to someone I know he asked if I've been tested for low testosterone and this can cause muscular and joint problems especially in the upper body I spoke to the doctor and I'm booked in wth the nurse next week to get tested.
Other symptom some that I have are.
Low mood
Poor sex drive
Weight gain and difficulty losing it
Fatigue
Also if your highly strung do you grind your teeth or have tongue thrust as the can mess up your upper body muscles.
Had various tests that have come back clear bloods etc also had an MRI which was unremarkable.
Speaking to someone I know he asked if I've been tested for low testosterone and this can cause muscular and joint problems especially in the upper body I spoke to the doctor and I'm booked in wth the nurse next week to get tested.
Other symptom some that I have are.
Low mood
Poor sex drive
Weight gain and difficulty losing it
Fatigue
Also if your highly strung do you grind your teeth or have tongue thrust as the can mess up your upper body muscles.
Edited by Patch1875 on Saturday 4th February 11:34
Interestingly, I had similar problems for a many years (desk job, poor posture), although possibly not quite as bad as your symptoms seem to be. Anyway I ran into my uncle at my sisters wedding and remembered that he'd had similar issues (he's around 20 years older than me).
I explained that I been to the osteo, chiro, GP and tried acupuncture and sports massage... To no avail. His suggestion was to cut out dairy.. Completely. That's what he'd done and it'd made a huge difference.
I switched to soya for pretty much everything, no milk at all, or cheese. I'll still have eggs if they're in a cake or similar. No butter either, replaced with a Flora alternative.
Anyway, as my uncle said... What's the downside? Sure, soya milk is a bit strange to get used to, but soya (Alpro) yoghurts are really nice, same with the spreads. I really don't miss dairy at all.
The upshot... Switching from dairy, along with some dynamic exercise (in my case, Taekwondo-Do) has made a significant improvement. I'm about 3 months in and the skeletal pain is almost gone, muscular stiffness greatly reduced. No more numbness in the arms or shooting pains down into my hands. Not sure why, nor what the science is, but it worked for me.
Might be worth a try? After all, what's the downside, really?
Cheers,
UV
I explained that I been to the osteo, chiro, GP and tried acupuncture and sports massage... To no avail. His suggestion was to cut out dairy.. Completely. That's what he'd done and it'd made a huge difference.
I switched to soya for pretty much everything, no milk at all, or cheese. I'll still have eggs if they're in a cake or similar. No butter either, replaced with a Flora alternative.
Anyway, as my uncle said... What's the downside? Sure, soya milk is a bit strange to get used to, but soya (Alpro) yoghurts are really nice, same with the spreads. I really don't miss dairy at all.
The upshot... Switching from dairy, along with some dynamic exercise (in my case, Taekwondo-Do) has made a significant improvement. I'm about 3 months in and the skeletal pain is almost gone, muscular stiffness greatly reduced. No more numbness in the arms or shooting pains down into my hands. Not sure why, nor what the science is, but it worked for me.
Might be worth a try? After all, what's the downside, really?
Cheers,
UV
I developed a pain under one shoulder blade, which moved to my neck, then gradually moved to my left bicep. A nagging, annoying ache that would not go away.
Went to my GP and without even having a look he gave me the option of painkillers or a jab of cortisone......
Eventually I decided to take action, googled it, first hit told me bad posture in front of the computer is THE biggest cause of neck and shoulder pain nowadays. I moved my pc screen up six inches, changed my chair.....and 48 hours later the pain had gone completely!
Both the pc at work and the one at home required leaning forward a lot to see the screen. I changed it on both, so I sat upright and looked head-front at the screen.
Went to my GP and without even having a look he gave me the option of painkillers or a jab of cortisone......
Eventually I decided to take action, googled it, first hit told me bad posture in front of the computer is THE biggest cause of neck and shoulder pain nowadays. I moved my pc screen up six inches, changed my chair.....and 48 hours later the pain had gone completely!
Both the pc at work and the one at home required leaning forward a lot to see the screen. I changed it on both, so I sat upright and looked head-front at the screen.
I was in exactly the same position as you and suffered shoulder and neck pain that was only temporarily removed by physio etc. I found a wonderful sports masseuse who softened all the muscles and eased the pain. I then do Pilates 3 times a week which has helped my posture no end and I no longer have the debilitating neck pain! The Pilates had been a revelation to me and although it is not easy I really feel that you are helping yourself and preventing the problem.
Patch1875 said:
I have similar upper body issues neck shoulders upper back and jaw, I've been feeling lousy for about 18months.
Had various tests that have come back clear bloods etc also had an MRI which was unremarkable.
Speaking to someone I know he asked if I've been tested for low testosterone and this can cause muscular and joint problems especially in the upper body I spoke to the doctor and I'm booked in wth the nurse next week to get tested.
Also if your highly strung do you grind your teeth or have tongue thrust as the can mess up your upper body muscles.
I had this exact thing funnily enough discovered by a specialist dentist I went to for TMJ (my teeth are basically worn down flat). He told me he couldnt do anything for my jaw until my body was realigned properly.Had various tests that have come back clear bloods etc also had an MRI which was unremarkable.
Speaking to someone I know he asked if I've been tested for low testosterone and this can cause muscular and joint problems especially in the upper body I spoke to the doctor and I'm booked in wth the nurse next week to get tested.
Also if your highly strung do you grind your teeth or have tongue thrust as the can mess up your upper body muscles.
Edited by Patch1875 on Saturday 4th February 11:34
I went to the London Orthotic Consultancy. My whole posture was f
ked. I was 'holding' my neck up rather than it sitting on top of my body.Got custom orthotics made to make me stand up straight. You dont realise how crap you are standing until your feet are forced into a position that makes you stand properly.
Bam - pain/aches gone forever literally instantly.
That was 3 years ago and I have never had anything like it again. I seriously reccoment looking into it if not for OP, then definitely for you.
Your post could have been written by me.
Edited by p1stonhead on Monday 6th February 07:49
p1stonhead said:
I had this exact thing funnily enough discovered by a specialist dentist I went to for TMJ (my teeth are basically worn down flat). He told me he couldnt do anything for my jaw until my body was realigned properly.
I went to the London Orthotic Consultancy. My whole posture was fked. I was 'holding' my neck up rather than it sitting on top of my body.
Got custom orthotics made to make me stand up straight. You dont realise how crap you are standing until your feet are forced into a position that makes you stand properly.
Bam - pain/aches gone forever literally instantly.
That was 3 years ago and I have never had anything like it again. I seriously reccoment looking into it if not for OP, then definitely for you.
Your post could have been written by me.
Thanks for the advice sounds like it's the route I need to go down.I went to the London Orthotic Consultancy. My whole posture was f
ked. I was 'holding' my neck up rather than it sitting on top of my body.Got custom orthotics made to make me stand up straight. You dont realise how crap you are standing until your feet are forced into a position that makes you stand properly.
Bam - pain/aches gone forever literally instantly.
That was 3 years ago and I have never had anything like it again. I seriously reccoment looking into it if not for OP, then definitely for you.
Your post could have been written by me.
Edited by p1stonhead on Monday 6th February 07:49
Will see what the blood test shows up if anything ,I've a few other nagging symptoms that have been around with the upper pain (weight gain/difficulty losing it, fatigue ,muscle loss low mood) which can point to testosterone issues.
I see a couple of similar places to where you went up here in Edinburgh I'm guessing they won't be cheap?!
Patch1875 said:
p1stonhead said:
I had this exact thing funnily enough discovered by a specialist dentist I went to for TMJ (my teeth are basically worn down flat). He told me he couldnt do anything for my jaw until my body was realigned properly.
I went to the London Orthotic Consultancy. My whole posture was fked. I was 'holding' my neck up rather than it sitting on top of my body.
Got custom orthotics made to make me stand up straight. You dont realise how crap you are standing until your feet are forced into a position that makes you stand properly.
Bam - pain/aches gone forever literally instantly.
That was 3 years ago and I have never had anything like it again. I seriously reccoment looking into it if not for OP, then definitely for you.
Your post could have been written by me.
Thanks for the advice sounds like it's the route I need to go down.I went to the London Orthotic Consultancy. My whole posture was f
ked. I was 'holding' my neck up rather than it sitting on top of my body.Got custom orthotics made to make me stand up straight. You dont realise how crap you are standing until your feet are forced into a position that makes you stand properly.
Bam - pain/aches gone forever literally instantly.
That was 3 years ago and I have never had anything like it again. I seriously reccoment looking into it if not for OP, then definitely for you.
Your post could have been written by me.
Edited by p1stonhead on Monday 6th February 07:49
Will see what the blood test shows up if anything ,I've a few other nagging symptoms that have been around with the upper pain (weight gain/difficulty losing it, fatigue ,muscle loss low mood) which can point to testosterone issues.
I see a couple of similar places to where you went up here in Edinburgh I'm guessing they won't be cheap?!
But in terms of life quality change - priceless.
Patch1875 said:
p1stonhead said:
Keep me posted id like to know the outcome 
Will do. Meant to ask did sorting your posture fix your TMJ or did you have to get further help for that?I've spent several thousand across MRI's, splints, specialist dentists etc and it's a bit better now but I think it'll one day get worse and worse. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Thankfully I've never had pain just clicking.
There isn't a guaranteed fix unfortunately. Braces can help, but anecdotally can also make it worse. I had braces as a kid and this could have even contributed to why I got it in the first place apparently.
I found an amazing specialist who knew all about it but at the time (5 years ago) I couldn't even really afford his advice after the initial consultation confirming I had it. He was £300 a hour! But he was the one who told me to sort my posture so I'm eternally grateful to him. First thing he said when I told him my jaw was clicking was 'take your shoes off and stand against the wall' - WTF I thought. I was severely flat footed as in I had zero arch in my feet. Evidently this is a bad thing. My orthotics over about 3 years formed a good arch and I don't need them now. I still wear them though as a habit.
Regarding the jaw, I just sleep with a night guard now to stop my teeth literally dissapearing into dust
Edited by p1stonhead on Tuesday 7th February 19:54
p1stonhead said:
No it didn't unfortunately. TMJ is evidently very complicated and not many dentists even know really what it is or how to treat it.
I've spent several thousand across MRI's, splints, specialist dentists etc and it's a bit better now but I think it'll one day get worse and worse. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Thankfully I've never had pain just clicking.
There isn't a guaranteed fix unfortunately. Braces can help, but anecdotally can also make it worse. I had braces as a kid and this could have even contributed to why I got it in the first place apparently.
I found an amazing specialist who knew all about it but at the time (5 years ago) I couldn't even really afford his advice after the initial consultation confirming I had it. He was £300 a hour! But he was the one who told me to sort my posture so I'm eternally grateful to him. First thing he said when I told him my jaw was clicking was 'take your shoes off and stand against the wall' - WTF I thought. I was severely flat footed as in I had zero arch in my feet. Evidently this is a bad thing. My orthotics over about 3 years formed a good arch and I don't need them now. I still wear them though as a habit.
Regarding the jaw, I just sleep with a night guard now to stop my teeth literally dissapearing into dust
Sounds a nightmare, not really sure what's going on with me. The dentist thought I may be grinding my teeth but wasn't sure, what I have noticed is I push my tongue against my teeth at night and sometimes during the day which leaves indentations on my tongue it feels like my tongue muscle is tensed up and I don't know where I should put my tongue, I also wear a guard sometimes at night which help my tongue god know if I'm actually grinding my teeth as well!I've spent several thousand across MRI's, splints, specialist dentists etc and it's a bit better now but I think it'll one day get worse and worse. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Thankfully I've never had pain just clicking.
There isn't a guaranteed fix unfortunately. Braces can help, but anecdotally can also make it worse. I had braces as a kid and this could have even contributed to why I got it in the first place apparently.
I found an amazing specialist who knew all about it but at the time (5 years ago) I couldn't even really afford his advice after the initial consultation confirming I had it. He was £300 a hour! But he was the one who told me to sort my posture so I'm eternally grateful to him. First thing he said when I told him my jaw was clicking was 'take your shoes off and stand against the wall' - WTF I thought. I was severely flat footed as in I had zero arch in my feet. Evidently this is a bad thing. My orthotics over about 3 years formed a good arch and I don't need them now. I still wear them though as a habit.
Regarding the jaw, I just sleep with a night guard now to stop my teeth literally dissapearing into dust
Edited by p1stonhead on Tuesday 7th February 19:54
Patch1875 said:
p1stonhead said:
No it didn't unfortunately. TMJ is evidently very complicated and not many dentists even know really what it is or how to treat it.
I've spent several thousand across MRI's, splints, specialist dentists etc and it's a bit better now but I think it'll one day get worse and worse. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Thankfully I've never had pain just clicking.
There isn't a guaranteed fix unfortunately. Braces can help, but anecdotally can also make it worse. I had braces as a kid and this could have even contributed to why I got it in the first place apparently.
I found an amazing specialist who knew all about it but at the time (5 years ago) I couldn't even really afford his advice after the initial consultation confirming I had it. He was £300 a hour! But he was the one who told me to sort my posture so I'm eternally grateful to him. First thing he said when I told him my jaw was clicking was 'take your shoes off and stand against the wall' - WTF I thought. I was severely flat footed as in I had zero arch in my feet. Evidently this is a bad thing. My orthotics over about 3 years formed a good arch and I don't need them now. I still wear them though as a habit.
Regarding the jaw, I just sleep with a night guard now to stop my teeth literally dissapearing into dust
Sounds a nightmare, not really sure what's going on with me. The dentist thought I may be grinding my teeth but wasn't sure, what I have noticed is I push my tongue against my teeth at night and sometimes during the day which leaves indentations on my tongue it feels like my tongue muscle is tensed up and I don't know where I should put my tongue, I also wear a guard sometimes at night which help my tongue god know if I'm actually grinding my teeth as well!I've spent several thousand across MRI's, splints, specialist dentists etc and it's a bit better now but I think it'll one day get worse and worse. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Thankfully I've never had pain just clicking.
There isn't a guaranteed fix unfortunately. Braces can help, but anecdotally can also make it worse. I had braces as a kid and this could have even contributed to why I got it in the first place apparently.
I found an amazing specialist who knew all about it but at the time (5 years ago) I couldn't even really afford his advice after the initial consultation confirming I had it. He was £300 a hour! But he was the one who told me to sort my posture so I'm eternally grateful to him. First thing he said when I told him my jaw was clicking was 'take your shoes off and stand against the wall' - WTF I thought. I was severely flat footed as in I had zero arch in my feet. Evidently this is a bad thing. My orthotics over about 3 years formed a good arch and I don't need them now. I still wear them though as a habit.
Regarding the jaw, I just sleep with a night guard now to stop my teeth literally dissapearing into dust
Edited by p1stonhead on Tuesday 7th February 19:54
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