Turns out an E46 330d M sport drives better than my 430d

[diehardbenzfan]

First and foremost, I've had 2 e46 330i's in my past, first one was a pre facelift sport (so wasn't an m sport) and the second was an SE.

My brother just got a immaculate 100,000 mile 330d 2.9 facelift e46 auto and after giving it a drive, I actually prefer the steering and handling to my 2015 430d on adaptive dampers, am I right or wrong? I don't know what it is but the E46 steering is so much sharper and direct, inspires a lot more confidence than my 4 series.

I'm actually quite annoyed that a brand new BMW with the latest technology, adaptive dampers and all that doesn't handle as well as a 14 year old 100,000 mile e46, you may think it's modfied but he bought it off a disabled man who was in a wheelchair, he had it for 10 years, it hasn't been lowered or anything, someone explain please?!

[diehardbenzfan]

I have this pain in my stomach thinking of how much fun I could of had with the e46 steering + handling and the 430d's performance!

[jjr1]

My 430D drives fine on non adaptive dampers and the handling is fantastic but the steering is inert and completely lacking in feel.

I will add a Boxster or Cayman this year to the fleet to get my sports car kicks and just accept the 430d as motorway mile muncher.

[diehardbenzfan]

By the way the 4 series isn't an x drive.

Also ill put it into perspective, in my area there's a wide road with a bend that I always use to test out how a car handles, in the 2 330's I had, I never took that bend at over 50 mph, never felt confident, I got my type r and I could easily take it at 65 and it felt completely safe, didn't even think about it, felt perfect, in the 4 series, I haven't been over 50, doesn't feel right. Now in the 330d, took it at 65 with absolutely no hesitation!!

Some of you will tell me to grow a pair or know how to drive and the 4 series can easily take that corner but that isn't a point, why is it easy in the 330d and the type r but not easy to do in the 4 series, I'm paying a fortune, what is this

[jjr1]

Steering feel?

[diehardbenzfan]

jjr1 said:

My 430D drives fine on non adaptive dampers and the handling is fantastic but the steering is inert and completely lacking in feel.

I will add a Boxster or Cayman this year to the fleet to get my sports car kicks and just accept the 430d as motorway mile muncher.

So do you think that it's all down to the steering? When I got the 430 and drove it after the type r, I accepted the steering was going to be nowhere near as good as the civic weighed 1200 kg and was front wheel drive so I accepted it that it wasn't going to be as good but when I drove that 330d, really did get me thinking, how could bmw get that wrong

[cerb4.5lee]

I regularly swap between a E90 330i(hydraulic steering) and a F13 640d(st electric steering), so I understand completely what you are experiencing.

I know the electric steering saves a few mpgs, but I wish BMW had stayed with the hydraulic and more feelsome steering because the electric set up is dire.

[diehardbenzfan]

cerb4.5lee said:

I regularly swap between a E90 330i(hydraulic steering) and a F13 640d(st electric steering), so I understand completely what you are experiencing.

I know the electric steering saves a few mpgs, but I wish BMW had stayed with the hydraulic and more feelsome steering because the electric set up is dire.

That now makes sense, it's the steering!

As for the consumption, it doesn't even save any mpg, the e46 averages 28-30 driving normally and drops right down to early 20's with a spirited drive and is exactly the same in the 4 series! Its all a load of bks that mpg malarkey, I should have gotten a 435i

[cerb4.5lee]

diehardbenzfan said:

Its all a load of bks that mpg malarkey

Yes I agree and manufacturers seem to sell the electric steering that way, I certainly wish it was still hydraulic for sure.

The electric steering feels dead when going straight ahead and doesn't feel connected to the wheels when you go around corners!!

[smashy]

Your MPG............its broken ...joking apart I cant get less than 30 even driving in London Traffic in my 330d............long journeys driving like I stole it cant get under 40mpg

[T16OLE]

cerb4.5lee said:

I regularly swap between a E90 330i(hydraulic steering) and a F13 640d(st electric steering), so I understand completely what you are experiencing.

I know the electric steering saves a few mpgs, but I wish BMW had stayed with the hydraulic and more feelsome steering because the electric set up is dire.

Same for me and the other half's 120i, it just feels crisp and nicely weighted compared to a 640d

It feels likes its not even attached as a estentially just a round 'switch'

[SidewaysSi]

Is it really a surprise? Most new cars are not as much fun as older stuff.

People buying new cars and thinking they are more engaging than something older and less complex would be disappointed. More able perhaps but rarely more fun.

[bmwmike]

Totally agree. When I got my f10 I was totally underwhelmed after my e46. It's definitely the electric steering and the lack of feel. RFT probably don't help either. Also I find the f10 seating position way too high so you are say ON the car rather than in it.

But... since I've gotten the hang of it I can fling the f10 around corners that would have been pushing it in the e46. The f10 straight line grip is less than th e46 but laterally around corners I find it much better since I've learned just just chuck it and have fun.

[iSore]

Gotten?

I don't mind the 3/4 Series so much but the X1 is terrible. the F10, for all it's good points, never drove as well as a good E60 either.

[bmwmike]

"when I gotten my f10" ? Lmao

[iSore]

bmwmike said:

"when I gotten my f10" ? Lmao

What kinda gas mileage do y'get?

[Slippydiff]

cerb4.5lee said:

Yes I agree and manufacturers seem to sell the electric steering that way, I certainly wish it was still hydraulic for sure.

The electric steering feels dead when going straight ahead and doesn't feel connected to the wheels when you go around corners!!

I think your expectations for what most individuals want/expect from a near 2 ton luxury barge, maybe somewhat skewed.
I'm a big fan of BMW's having driven them since 1999. E36 M3 4 door (15k miles in 12 months), 328i SE auto with sports seats, 16" wheels and sports suspension, probably the best suspended BMW I've driven along with my M3 CSL. (20k miles in 2 years). E46 330 D M Sport auto saloon (130k miles in 6 years) E90 335 auto M Sport saloon (110k miles in 4 years) E46 M3 CSL (30k miles in 3 years) F20 120D MSport auto 3 dr (22k miles in 18 months)

After the 120D I fancied an "upgrade" to something more luxurious, I test drove an F10 535 D M Sport auto and an F13 640D MSport. I actually liked the F10 5 series, but it's image was a bit too staid.

The 640 was lovely (apart from the hopeless ride on the optional 20" ? wheels) I said I'd do a deal on it, but they'd have to swap it onto the standard 19" wheels. But the test drive revealed it's handling/steering and ride to be "uninspiring". A cracking engine and 'box (though the performance felt blunted by the sheer weight of thing, along with the fact it was refined in a manner a 335D couldn't hope to replicate, meant it belied its pace in a straight line) But the steering and handling were not just uninspiring, they were woeful. But then I gave some thought to what it was I was driving, at 1900 Kgs it could never hope to agile and nimble, and why would BMW want to make it in any way focused ? you buy an M6 if you want a focused 6 Series.

P.S Made a contribution to the blocked washer jets thread especially for your benefit cerb...

I briefly owned an E63 M6, a truly wonderful chassis (for a big car it really did shrink around you when pushing on) albeit rather blighted by BMW's early attempts at EPAS. The steering wasn't dealbreaker for me, but the horrendous fuel consumption, poor round town manners of the gearbox and hopeless lack of dealer knowledge and backup was.

I note Chris Harris said in his roadtest of the F13 M6 Competition pack that they'd modified the rack mountings/bulkhead and that the steering was massive improvement over the "standard" M6 as a result. So maybe the woeful 640 D steering could be drastically improved with use of the M6 Competition rack and mounts. No doubt it would be hugely expensive though.

Back to the OP's question, I went from a F30 330 D MSport auto saloon to an E90 330D auto M Sport saloon in Nov 2015. On the last day of ownership I drove the F30 along a section of road I know well at 90 Leptons. I remember thinking at the time that it was doubtful the E90 would be able to match the newer car's pace so effortlessly. The first night I owned the older car, I drove it along the same piece of road. It managed 80 Leptons but was harder work. A couple of weeks later I had the geometry adjusted by my local BMW stealer (I'd also put the car onto 17" wheels and non-runflats). I then went on to have the car mapped too. The end result of the geometry adjustment and remap was a car that easily matched the F30's pace and whilst not as relaxing/easy/effortless to drive was a lot more fun, tactile and engaging to drive. In short it felt more of drivers car and less off a luxury barge isolated from the process of driving.

In short, the old stuff is great if maintained properly. And the car I miss the most ? My E90 335D.

[cerb4.5lee]

Slippydiff said:

I think your expectations for what most individuals want/expect from a near 2 ton luxury barge, maybe somewhat skewed.

My expectations of the car itself are fine, and it was purchased purely as a relatively comfortable mile muncher with a bit of pace and acceptable mpg.

The weight/size of the thing is a little annoying though, plus the fact the steering is so poor worries me if in the future I did fancy a current M car.

I'm sure though if I didn't have the hydraulic steering on the 330i to compare it too, then I would just get used to the electric system and it would just become the acceptable norm.

[JakeT]

I can't add a lot, but I think the E46 was the best 3 series BMW made. Later ones (and all compact models) got a quick steering rack. Not to mention BMW managed perfect 50:50 weight distribution with them, and they're a much smaller and lighter car than a current 6er.

[iSore]

JakeT said:

I can't add a lot, but I think the E46 was the best 3 series BMW made. Later ones (and all compact models) got a quick steering rack. Not to mention BMW managed perfect 50:50 weight distribution with them, and they're a much smaller and lighter car than a current 6er.

The E36 was better still (IMO), Light weight and just the right amount of rubber to make it a very good drive. I drive an E90 320i at the moment (with hydraulic PAS) and to be honest, I'm struggling to see how it represents an improvement over the 320i built ten years previously.