PLAIN OR GROOVED?
Discussion
Hi all.
Just a general question really.
My car currently has grooved discs all round and to be honest I can't really say the brakes feel much better than the plain ones on my previous car. Both have the 260/273mm set up.
I am going to upgrade the front brakes to 283mm and am undecided whether to fit plain or grooved discs although I am leaning towards the plain ones.
I just wondered what the general opinion is?
Regards Chris.
Just a general question really.
My car currently has grooved discs all round and to be honest I can't really say the brakes feel much better than the plain ones on my previous car. Both have the 260/273mm set up.
I am going to upgrade the front brakes to 283mm and am undecided whether to fit plain or grooved discs although I am leaning towards the plain ones.
I just wondered what the general opinion is?
Regards Chris.
Drilled discs can crack between the holes, grooved discs can be hard on pads.
Plain discs carry none of the above potential disadvantages while at the same time offering the greatest surface area.
The standard discs on these cars are vented so they get rid of heat extremely well, if you mostly drive on the road you really don't need drilled or grooved discs so fitting them ends up a case of looks over function.
Drilled and grooved discs tend to be more expensive too, you're actually paying more for less just so you can give your car a racy look. I'd save your money and buy quality plain discs from a reputable manufacturer, not all discs are created equal.
Pad choice is equally important, all pad compounds come with their own set of compromises but if you mostly drive on the road, a road pad will deliver fewer compromises.
Fitting drilled and grooved discs with track day pads may make you feel like you're upgrading your brakes, but the truth may well be you've just spent more for a whole host of undesirable negative traits like brake squeal, heavy dusting, brakes that don't work from cold, accelerated pad wear and dangerous cracks in the case of drilled discs.
Quality plain discs and a set of decent road compound pads will give you none of these headaches.
if you really want to upgrade your brakes the way to do it is fit bigger (plain discs) and better calipers, this is the way an engineer would approach a brake upgrade, he most certainly wouldn't tackle the upgrade by fitting Carlos Fandango drilled/grooved discs and track day pads.
Have a look at the Brembo upgrade, this gives you OEM quality four piston calipers and 324mm discs and is a real upgrade, fitting drilled/grooved discs with track day pads may seem a lot easier to implement (and it is) but if you want to do the job properly you are way better off putting the money you would have spent on all the nonsense stuff and putting it towards the cost of the Brembo conversion.
Once you've experience the Brembos.... You'll never go back!
Plain discs carry none of the above potential disadvantages while at the same time offering the greatest surface area.
The standard discs on these cars are vented so they get rid of heat extremely well, if you mostly drive on the road you really don't need drilled or grooved discs so fitting them ends up a case of looks over function.
Drilled and grooved discs tend to be more expensive too, you're actually paying more for less just so you can give your car a racy look. I'd save your money and buy quality plain discs from a reputable manufacturer, not all discs are created equal.
Pad choice is equally important, all pad compounds come with their own set of compromises but if you mostly drive on the road, a road pad will deliver fewer compromises.
Fitting drilled and grooved discs with track day pads may make you feel like you're upgrading your brakes, but the truth may well be you've just spent more for a whole host of undesirable negative traits like brake squeal, heavy dusting, brakes that don't work from cold, accelerated pad wear and dangerous cracks in the case of drilled discs.
Quality plain discs and a set of decent road compound pads will give you none of these headaches.
if you really want to upgrade your brakes the way to do it is fit bigger (plain discs) and better calipers, this is the way an engineer would approach a brake upgrade, he most certainly wouldn't tackle the upgrade by fitting Carlos Fandango drilled/grooved discs and track day pads.
Have a look at the Brembo upgrade, this gives you OEM quality four piston calipers and 324mm discs and is a real upgrade, fitting drilled/grooved discs with track day pads may seem a lot easier to implement (and it is) but if you want to do the job properly you are way better off putting the money you would have spent on all the nonsense stuff and putting it towards the cost of the Brembo conversion.
Once you've experience the Brembos.... You'll never go back!
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 3rd February 07:26
Ask on the T car forums,,,
Many T cars I've seen use drilled discs. I've spoke to an experienced Tvr mechanic who confirms what another mechanic who works on performance cars said,
Grooved are good but can cause pad break up
Drilled are better, can crack but quality discs rarely do.
When I was considering replacing my front brakes I did a bit of basic research, asked racers and their mechanics what they would use.
Most said stay with plain because it's easier to get a pad match to the disc without the risk of pad break up.
Nearly all said you'll have no problems with drilled and any pad, I've known for years pads break up because of grooves,
I assumed you'd have similar problem with drilled but not according to almost every person who I asked.
I stayed with plain as I'm not getting them hot enough often enough to require grooves or drilled discs.
Having just re read this post, most people said if the pads and discs are of quality you shouldn't get a problem with either.
Running a drill though the holes is a tip all decent mechanics do when say just changing pads, keeps any carbon build up down
This is splitting hairs, decent pads and discs do what there designed to do.
If you are likely to overload the front brakes as in trackday nutter mode
then maybe go for grooves etc but otherwise it can come with risks and little benefit for road driving as you the OP have already mentioned 
Many T cars I've seen use drilled discs. I've spoke to an experienced Tvr mechanic who confirms what another mechanic who works on performance cars said,
Grooved are good but can cause pad break up
Drilled are better, can crack but quality discs rarely do.
When I was considering replacing my front brakes I did a bit of basic research, asked racers and their mechanics what they would use.
Most said stay with plain because it's easier to get a pad match to the disc without the risk of pad break up.
Nearly all said you'll have no problems with drilled and any pad, I've known for years pads break up because of grooves,
I assumed you'd have similar problem with drilled but not according to almost every person who I asked.
I stayed with plain as I'm not getting them hot enough often enough to require grooves or drilled discs.
Having just re read this post, most people said if the pads and discs are of quality you shouldn't get a problem with either.
Running a drill though the holes is a tip all decent mechanics do when say just changing pads, keeps any carbon build up down
This is splitting hairs, decent pads and discs do what there designed to do.
If you are likely to overload the front brakes as in trackday nutter mode
then maybe go for grooves etc but otherwise it can come with risks and little benefit for road driving as you the OP have already mentioned 
Just to add.... one of the biggest improvements I implemented on my brake setup didn't actually involve a single brake component 
What really let my Brembo conversion shine was when I fitted Ben Lang's excellent Mk4 Tuscan 'S' specification Bilstein suspension kit.
Going from newly reconditioned Gaz Gold Pros to the Bilsteins, it really surprised me how much shorter my braking distances became with the new spec Billies.
Four piston Brembo calipers + Goodridge stainless braided hoses + Brembo brand 324mm plain vented discs + genuine Brembo road pads + Ben Lang's latest Bilstein kit = stunning stopping power &
It's a truly fantastic equation
What really let my Brembo conversion shine was when I fitted Ben Lang's excellent Mk4 Tuscan 'S' specification Bilstein suspension kit.
Going from newly reconditioned Gaz Gold Pros to the Bilsteins, it really surprised me how much shorter my braking distances became with the new spec Billies.
Four piston Brembo calipers + Goodridge stainless braided hoses + Brembo brand 324mm plain vented discs + genuine Brembo road pads + Ben Lang's latest Bilstein kit = stunning stopping power &
It's a truly fantastic equation
Thanks for the replies!
I tend to agree with everything said above so plain discs it will be.
I have a set of Ben Langs Mk4 Bilsteins to go on the car although they are the standard Chimaera valving.They were purchased for my previous car but never fitted. As I want to be able to keep the option of fitting standard wheels again I am going for a 283 disc upgrade and Hi Spec calipers from Hans so that should make an improvement I hope. I do like the Brembos though.......
Thanks for your help.
Regards Chris.
I tend to agree with everything said above so plain discs it will be.
I have a set of Ben Langs Mk4 Bilsteins to go on the car although they are the standard Chimaera valving.They were purchased for my previous car but never fitted. As I want to be able to keep the option of fitting standard wheels again I am going for a 283 disc upgrade and Hi Spec calipers from Hans so that should make an improvement I hope. I do like the Brembos though.......
Thanks for your help.
Regards Chris.
s3c chris said:
Thanks for the replies!
I tend to agree with everything said above so plain discs it will be.
I have a set of Ben Langs Mk4 Bilsteins to go on the car although they are the standard Chimaera valving.They were purchased for my previous car but never fitted. As I want to be able to keep the option of fitting standard wheels again I am going for a 283 disc upgrade and Hi Spec calipers from Hans so that should make an improvement I hope. I do like the Brembos though.......
Thanks for your help.
Regards Chris.
If and when you put the Bilsteins on could you come back and tell us your opinion please I tend to agree with everything said above so plain discs it will be.
I have a set of Ben Langs Mk4 Bilsteins to go on the car although they are the standard Chimaera valving.They were purchased for my previous car but never fitted. As I want to be able to keep the option of fitting standard wheels again I am going for a 283 disc upgrade and Hi Spec calipers from Hans so that should make an improvement I hope. I do like the Brembos though.......
Thanks for your help.
Regards Chris.
ChimpOnGas said:
Just to add.... one of the biggest improvements I implemented on my brake setup didn't actually involve a single brake component
What really let my Brembo conversion shine was when I fitted Ben Lang's excellent Mk4 Tuscan 'S' specification Bilstein suspension kit.
Going from newly reconditioned Gaz Gold Pros to the Bilsteins, it really surprised me how much shorter my braking distances became with the new spec Billies.
Four piston Brembo calipers + Goodridge stainless braided hoses + Brembo brand 324mm plain vented discs + genuine Brembo road pads + Ben Lang's latest Bilstein kit = stunning stopping power &
It's a truly fantastic equation
you reap what you sow,new Billies and nitrons are streets ahead in engineering quality compared to new GGP's which are a good budget dampner.What really let my Brembo conversion shine was when I fitted Ben Lang's excellent Mk4 Tuscan 'S' specification Bilstein suspension kit.
Going from newly reconditioned Gaz Gold Pros to the Bilsteins, it really surprised me how much shorter my braking distances became with the new spec Billies.
Four piston Brembo calipers + Goodridge stainless braided hoses + Brembo brand 324mm plain vented discs + genuine Brembo road pads + Ben Lang's latest Bilstein kit = stunning stopping power &
It's a truly fantastic equation
Its the same with discs, purchase a good quality plain disc rather than cheaper slotted or drilled variety.
Edited by portzi on Friday 3rd February 12:58
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