Basic advice sought for my kneecap - worsening pain.
Discussion
Hi all, I know the only correct thing to do is make an appointment to go see my Doctor but I do have a reason for asking here.
For the past 6 or 7 years the pain in my kneecaps (predominantly the left one) has gotten worse. Started off sporadic and for the past 8/10 months its gotten a lot more constant and increasingly painful. Sitting down in any form and especially when in bed is constantly perplexing. Practically every night I am woken up in th early hours with my left knee locked and in sever pain. Its as if someone is jabbing an ice pick from the inside out in the centre/middle. I cannot cross my legs without this pain kicking off within a minute or two at most, same with sitting on couch in any position, office chair/dining table too. When it happens in bed it takes anything up to 30 to 50 minutes for the knee to "unlock" if the knee is bent the stiffness is eyewatering, enough to make me scream, feels like if someone where to straighten the knee/leg it would snap/break.
The only time the pain lets up is during extended periods of not sitting/laying down or bending said knee. My hesitation and reason for posting is due to substance/prescribed medication misuse a long time ago. Any time since then I am reluctant to seek medical help as some doctors wrongly judge and view complaint as "Med Seeking" (I wish...) This pain is effecting me day to day, I can suffer in silence and get on with things but everyone has a limit. Ive had to accidents or anything that could be an obvious cause. Arthritis of several types is rife within family. Is there anything I could do myself?
(apologies for the long s
tty post, another sleepless night and I could audition for the walking dead!)
;-)
For the past 6 or 7 years the pain in my kneecaps (predominantly the left one) has gotten worse. Started off sporadic and for the past 8/10 months its gotten a lot more constant and increasingly painful. Sitting down in any form and especially when in bed is constantly perplexing. Practically every night I am woken up in th early hours with my left knee locked and in sever pain. Its as if someone is jabbing an ice pick from the inside out in the centre/middle. I cannot cross my legs without this pain kicking off within a minute or two at most, same with sitting on couch in any position, office chair/dining table too. When it happens in bed it takes anything up to 30 to 50 minutes for the knee to "unlock" if the knee is bent the stiffness is eyewatering, enough to make me scream, feels like if someone where to straighten the knee/leg it would snap/break.
The only time the pain lets up is during extended periods of not sitting/laying down or bending said knee. My hesitation and reason for posting is due to substance/prescribed medication misuse a long time ago. Any time since then I am reluctant to seek medical help as some doctors wrongly judge and view complaint as "Med Seeking" (I wish...) This pain is effecting me day to day, I can suffer in silence and get on with things but everyone has a limit. Ive had to accidents or anything that could be an obvious cause. Arthritis of several types is rife within family. Is there anything I could do myself?
(apologies for the long s
tty post, another sleepless night and I could audition for the walking dead!);-)
Don't apologise for the long post - it's what we're here for!
I can only give you my advice from my knee problems.
Many years ago, around 1992, I was mucking about on a motocross bike, and I fell off - problem was, my leg got caught under the bike as I went down, and I pivoted around my knee joint. The result was torn medial and cruciate ligaments, along with a dislocated knee-cap. In hospital, the Doc just popped my knee-cap back to where it was supposed to be, and kicked me out the door.
The joint was very unstable after that, and I had one or two further occasions where the joint folded up underneath me when I was doing some sport or another, which made my knee blow up like a basketball, and it took me ages for it to subside and get back to normal.
A while later, I took up running in quite a serious fashion, plus gym work - the primary reason of which was to lose weight and get fit enough, to go off racing superbikes all over the country. The upshot of lots of running and a lot of gym work, especially on my legs, was to strengthen all the muscles in my legs, so that eventually, my weak knee joint was no longer weak. I might also add at this point that a strict stretching and warm-down routine after any training was also pivotal in helping with my recovery and strengthening.
I ended up with more or less 90% of full movement again, with around 90% of original strength too. It's never been as good as my other undamaged leg, but was good enough to do what I wanted to do.
However, as well as racing bikes, I became really addicted to running, and at my peak around 10 years ago I was training at 40 or 50 miles a week, along with half-marathon distances at weekends when I had time. I also did a few 10k races too, getting my PB down to the 40 odd minute mark.
Trouble was, where my knee joint still had a little bit of lateral movement from the initial injury, all the running caused a lot of premature wear, and problems began to surface in 2007 and then again in 2011.
Hence I had to admit defeat and go in for arthroscopic knee surgery in 2007 and again in 2011. In 2007 the surgeon did a wash-out and removed a large piece of floating bone and cartilage out of the joint, which had been causing lock-up type problems that you describe.
In 2011, he did another wash-out, and trimmed off a piece of bone from the bottom of my femur which had randomly grown. However, he then also noticed some serious wear to the articular cartilage on the bottom of my femur too (this is a hard substance like tooth-enamel, which once worn away, does not grow back) and on the follow-up, told me with a serious face that I had to stop running (I was 38 years old). Which I did.
I do a bit of cycling and some walking now is all, and touch-wood the joint has been ok. I do still get the occasional lock-up situation of a morning, where I can't easily move the joint, but after a little bit of sitting and flexing / extending, it eventually plays ball.
My first referrals and operations in 2007 were through my GP - but it did take a long time to even arrange the initial MRI scan.
When my second lot of issues began in 2011, I didn't want to wait for my GP to arrange it all, so I went to a local private hospital and saw the knee consultant there, by-passing my GP. I paid around 200 quid for a private MRI scan (which was still at the local NHS hospital) but it meant that I could have a scan done within a matter of days rather than weeks. I then went back to see the surgeon again, discuss the scan, and he then booked me in for another arthroscopy at the local hospital again under the NHS.
SO - to cut a long story short, if you don't want to see your GP about it, then the alternative may be to find a local private consultation, which you'll obviously have to pay for. But the initial consultation and any scans are not what I would call THAT expensive - hundreds yes, but not thousands. Then if he / she recommends an op on your knee(s) then they'll book you into your local NHS place to do so.
Hope this helps, let us know how you get on.
I can only give you my advice from my knee problems.
Many years ago, around 1992, I was mucking about on a motocross bike, and I fell off - problem was, my leg got caught under the bike as I went down, and I pivoted around my knee joint. The result was torn medial and cruciate ligaments, along with a dislocated knee-cap. In hospital, the Doc just popped my knee-cap back to where it was supposed to be, and kicked me out the door.
The joint was very unstable after that, and I had one or two further occasions where the joint folded up underneath me when I was doing some sport or another, which made my knee blow up like a basketball, and it took me ages for it to subside and get back to normal.
A while later, I took up running in quite a serious fashion, plus gym work - the primary reason of which was to lose weight and get fit enough, to go off racing superbikes all over the country. The upshot of lots of running and a lot of gym work, especially on my legs, was to strengthen all the muscles in my legs, so that eventually, my weak knee joint was no longer weak. I might also add at this point that a strict stretching and warm-down routine after any training was also pivotal in helping with my recovery and strengthening.
I ended up with more or less 90% of full movement again, with around 90% of original strength too. It's never been as good as my other undamaged leg, but was good enough to do what I wanted to do.
However, as well as racing bikes, I became really addicted to running, and at my peak around 10 years ago I was training at 40 or 50 miles a week, along with half-marathon distances at weekends when I had time. I also did a few 10k races too, getting my PB down to the 40 odd minute mark.
Trouble was, where my knee joint still had a little bit of lateral movement from the initial injury, all the running caused a lot of premature wear, and problems began to surface in 2007 and then again in 2011.
Hence I had to admit defeat and go in for arthroscopic knee surgery in 2007 and again in 2011. In 2007 the surgeon did a wash-out and removed a large piece of floating bone and cartilage out of the joint, which had been causing lock-up type problems that you describe.
In 2011, he did another wash-out, and trimmed off a piece of bone from the bottom of my femur which had randomly grown. However, he then also noticed some serious wear to the articular cartilage on the bottom of my femur too (this is a hard substance like tooth-enamel, which once worn away, does not grow back) and on the follow-up, told me with a serious face that I had to stop running (I was 38 years old). Which I did.
I do a bit of cycling and some walking now is all, and touch-wood the joint has been ok. I do still get the occasional lock-up situation of a morning, where I can't easily move the joint, but after a little bit of sitting and flexing / extending, it eventually plays ball.
My first referrals and operations in 2007 were through my GP - but it did take a long time to even arrange the initial MRI scan.
When my second lot of issues began in 2011, I didn't want to wait for my GP to arrange it all, so I went to a local private hospital and saw the knee consultant there, by-passing my GP. I paid around 200 quid for a private MRI scan (which was still at the local NHS hospital) but it meant that I could have a scan done within a matter of days rather than weeks. I then went back to see the surgeon again, discuss the scan, and he then booked me in for another arthroscopy at the local hospital again under the NHS.
SO - to cut a long story short, if you don't want to see your GP about it, then the alternative may be to find a local private consultation, which you'll obviously have to pay for. But the initial consultation and any scans are not what I would call THAT expensive - hundreds yes, but not thousands. Then if he / she recommends an op on your knee(s) then they'll book you into your local NHS place to do so.
Hope this helps, let us know how you get on.
What's the question?
Sounds exactly like what I had anyway, which steadily got worse over a decade. No one could figure it out (the useless tts) until I was informed by a very good surgeon (Mr Assad out of Newcastle) that it was a fat pad impingement.
Trust me, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Surgery followed by a very slow (for me-I've done 2 other knee surgeries over the years) recovery have seen it completely cured.
Sounds exactly like what I had anyway, which steadily got worse over a decade. No one could figure it out (the useless t
ts) until I was informed by a very good surgeon (Mr Assad out of Newcastle) that it was a fat pad impingement.Trust me, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Surgery followed by a very slow (for me-I've done 2 other knee surgeries over the years) recovery have seen it completely cured.
Go and see a physio, it'll cost about £30 but you'll get an hour with him to fully determine the problem.
I had a similar issue with my left knee although not to the extent you describe but it did get to a point that I could no longer stand up unaided. A physio sorted me out in one session by simply showing me a series of quick exercises to complete every day.
I'm not saying you won't need drugs/surgery but if you're concerned about that route then a physio would be my first port of call and go from there.
I had a similar issue with my left knee although not to the extent you describe but it did get to a point that I could no longer stand up unaided. A physio sorted me out in one session by simply showing me a series of quick exercises to complete every day.
I'm not saying you won't need drugs/surgery but if you're concerned about that route then a physio would be my first port of call and go from there.
Many thanks for the replies! I will look into seeing a local physio. The prices you mention "Ray Luxury-Yacht" are within reach, replies have sprinkled some positivity on the problem.
The pain is something else, and the feelings in the knee 99% of the time makes me think or feel that a swift boot to the rear of said knee would easily separate the leg in two, really does feel that fragile. I am my own person, I don't feel the need to project the big "tough guy" typical male BS but saying that I can handle pain like a trooper (to a point as do we all) I managed having my top lip stitched back together (pint glass + mental ex = drinking through a straw!) with no anaesthetic, 2 root canals in one sitting, golf club to the head and so on, but this pain can cause tears, waking up at stupid O'clock and spend the next hour lifting pj bottoms cm by cm to straighten my leg is a reet pain! Again feels so brittle/stiff that it would snap in two easily.. And I am not talking waking up in stupid positions at extreme angles..
I shall take the advice guys, again thank you, your posts have helped and motivated a whiney scouse git to seek help.. A virtual pat on your backs to you all (and a promise of no bricks in place of your alloys!)
:-)
The pain is something else, and the feelings in the knee 99% of the time makes me think or feel that a swift boot to the rear of said knee would easily separate the leg in two, really does feel that fragile. I am my own person, I don't feel the need to project the big "tough guy" typical male BS but saying that I can handle pain like a trooper (to a point as do we all) I managed having my top lip stitched back together (pint glass + mental ex = drinking through a straw!) with no anaesthetic, 2 root canals in one sitting, golf club to the head and so on, but this pain can cause tears, waking up at stupid O'clock and spend the next hour lifting pj bottoms cm by cm to straighten my leg is a reet pain! Again feels so brittle/stiff that it would snap in two easily.. And I am not talking waking up in stupid positions at extreme angles..
I shall take the advice guys, again thank you, your posts have helped and motivated a whiney scouse git to seek help.. A virtual pat on your backs to you all (and a promise of no bricks in place of your alloys!)
:-)
jurbie said:
Go and see a physio, it'll cost about £30 but you'll get an hour with him to fully determine the problem.
I had a similar issue with my left knee although not to the extent you describe but it did get to a point that I could no longer stand up unaided. A physio sorted me out in one session by simply showing me a series of quick exercises to complete every day.
I'm not saying you won't need drugs/surgery but if you're concerned about that route then a physio would be my first port of call and go from there.
If it's anterior knee pain then a physio will not help diagnose that. I had a similar issue with my left knee although not to the extent you describe but it did get to a point that I could no longer stand up unaided. A physio sorted me out in one session by simply showing me a series of quick exercises to complete every day.
I'm not saying you won't need drugs/surgery but if you're concerned about that route then a physio would be my first port of call and go from there.
You need to see your GP and have an MRI SCAN.
I've had three keyhole surgerys one lateral release and tomorrow I'm having a TTO. which breaks my leg moves my knee cap all to stop anterior knee pain.
How old are you? You may be able to get a total knee replacement if it's as bad as you say.
Mopey said:
If it's anterior knee pain then a physio will not help diagnose that.
You need to see your GP and have an MRI SCAN.
I've had three keyhole surgerys one lateral release and tomorrow I'm having a TTO. which breaks my leg moves my knee cap all to stop anterior knee pain.
How old are you? You may be able to get a total knee replacement if it's as bad as you say.
I'm sorry, but most of this is wrong.You need to see your GP and have an MRI SCAN.
I've had three keyhole surgerys one lateral release and tomorrow I'm having a TTO. which breaks my leg moves my knee cap all to stop anterior knee pain.
How old are you? You may be able to get a total knee replacement if it's as bad as you say.
Most good physios diagnose anterior knee pain very well, and treat it.
You don't need an MRI to diagnose it, it's often normal. Sometimes the PD-FS sequence shows something, but the sensitivity is not good enough.
A Tibial Tubercle Osteotomy is many different things and should be seen as an aggressive late treatment. And is it medialisation for tracking or anteriorisation to reduce the fulcrum or what. That said, good luck with it
They can and do work in the right patients. The bone cut is small and anterior, try not to think of it a a 'leg break'A TKR or total knee is really the wrong thing for anterior knee pain, it's for endstage cartilage wear in 2+ compartments. Even a bespoke PFJ replacement is very specific to a patient and should be seen as a late option.
Again, apologies, but it had to be said
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