Test drove a 993 ! Advice again please !
Discussion
Thanks everyone for taking the time to provide some advice yesterday on a potential 993 C4 purchase. I actually managed to pop down to the seller a day early to check the car out. Here are my impressions.
The car was immaculate outside. There were a few scratches on the recess behind the exterior door handle but that was about it. I thought it was very well kept for a 10 year old car. The were no visible signs of any crash damage (looked into the bonnet and boot, shutlines, etc) It had all the service history stamped up with an OPC in Belgium and has done only 5,000 miles since it came to England last year.
Interior wise the car reflects its age. The gaitor looks a bit grotty but that is fine. There are a few issues which I would be grateful for your thoughts please:
(a) On start up (from cold), the idle hunted quite a bit. If I blipped the throttle it would settle in idle again and would hunt for a second or two.
(b) On the test drive there was a strange noise, it sounded like the ABS pump engaging but I was told it was the brake pressure regulator and nothing to worry about.
(c) The oil temperature gauge stayed in the red zone even after idling for 5-7 minutes. It is the gauge next to the fuel gauge, on the dial furthest left (it's a LHD car). Does this sound right? I was told that it would heat up after a few miles of driving. The oil pressure looked ok, hovering at around 2 and moving up as soon as throttle was applied.
(d) Perhaps something I wasn't expecting was the heavy clutch. I am used to stiff clutches from my Chim but this was noticeably heavier. The seller said it was probably because of it being the C4. To me it was heavier than the C2 I tried previously, anyone have any thoughts? I can't tell whether the clutch has been replaced from the paperwork.
(e) Finally, the seller only had one keyfob for the alarm. I am always a bit paranoid about being left stranded by the immobiliser if the keyfob fails but he said there was a combination of locking and unlocking the car using the key. Is this true? Presumably this code is not universal otherwise it would be a serious lapse of security but can my dealer advise me of this?
Anyway, I am thinking of getting it inspected by an independent in South London, but before that, any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks !
The car was immaculate outside. There were a few scratches on the recess behind the exterior door handle but that was about it. I thought it was very well kept for a 10 year old car. The were no visible signs of any crash damage (looked into the bonnet and boot, shutlines, etc) It had all the service history stamped up with an OPC in Belgium and has done only 5,000 miles since it came to England last year.
Interior wise the car reflects its age. The gaitor looks a bit grotty but that is fine. There are a few issues which I would be grateful for your thoughts please:
(a) On start up (from cold), the idle hunted quite a bit. If I blipped the throttle it would settle in idle again and would hunt for a second or two.
(b) On the test drive there was a strange noise, it sounded like the ABS pump engaging but I was told it was the brake pressure regulator and nothing to worry about.
(c) The oil temperature gauge stayed in the red zone even after idling for 5-7 minutes. It is the gauge next to the fuel gauge, on the dial furthest left (it's a LHD car). Does this sound right? I was told that it would heat up after a few miles of driving. The oil pressure looked ok, hovering at around 2 and moving up as soon as throttle was applied.
(d) Perhaps something I wasn't expecting was the heavy clutch. I am used to stiff clutches from my Chim but this was noticeably heavier. The seller said it was probably because of it being the C4. To me it was heavier than the C2 I tried previously, anyone have any thoughts? I can't tell whether the clutch has been replaced from the paperwork.
(e) Finally, the seller only had one keyfob for the alarm. I am always a bit paranoid about being left stranded by the immobiliser if the keyfob fails but he said there was a combination of locking and unlocking the car using the key. Is this true? Presumably this code is not universal otherwise it would be a serious lapse of security but can my dealer advise me of this?
Anyway, I am thinking of getting it inspected by an independent in South London, but before that, any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks !
chicklets said:
(a) On start up (from cold), the idle hunted quite a bit. If I blipped the throttle it would settle in idle again and would hunt for a second or two.
On a cold start mine revs flat at around 1100 - 1200 rpm so this will reequire attention at some point
chicklets said:
(b) On the test drive there was a strange noise, it sounded like the ABS pump engaging but I was told it was the brake pressure regulator and nothing to worry about.
He's trying to fob you off, there shouldn't be any obvious noises during the drive (other than that of the engine)
chicklets said:
(c) The oil temperature gauge stayed in the red zone even after idling for 5-7 minutes. It is the gauge next to the fuel gauge, on the dial furthest left (it's a LHD car). Does this sound right? I was told that it would heat up after a few miles of driving. The oil pressure looked ok, hovering at around 2 and moving up as soon as throttle was applied.
If you're talking about the gauge in the same dial as the fuel gauge I believe that is the oil level indicator (some one may correct me on this). In any case there's nearly 12 litres of oil in a 3.6 engine so it does take a good while for it to heat up and the dial to register this.
chicklets said:
(d) Perhaps something I wasn't expecting was the heavy clutch... ...The seller said it was probably because of it being the C4. To me it was heavier than the C2 I tried previously, anyone have any thoughts? I can't tell whether the clutch has been replaced from the paperwork.
Sounds like the clutch is on it's way out, my clutch is really stiff which isn't surprising considering it's the original part and has done nearly 50k miles.
chicklets said:
(e) Finally, the seller only had one keyfob for the alarm.
It's worth haggling to get the cost of another alarm fob off the asking price (Hamilton and Palmer still supply them).
chicklets said:
Anyway, I am thinking of getting it inspected by an independent in South London.
Very wise words.
Good luck
c) Yep, as above, this gauge is the oil level and only reads correctly once the engine is up to operating temperature and the thermostat has opened, at idle on level ground. Otherwise it stays in the red, so nothing unusual in what you saw.
d) If the engine was rebuilt 15k kms ago, I'd assume that the clutch was replaced at the same time. Clutches seem to last between 60 to 100k kms depending on driving style, but to have the engine out for rebuild then fit it without replacing the clutch (unless it was almost brand new) would be a bit daft.
e) Don't know what alarm system you have, but on mine using the key and then disarminbg the immobiliser seems to be a painful process of communicating with the brain by switching on and off the ignition numerous times in a timed sequence. Not viable for day to day operation, so definitiely negotiate price of the key fob or get them to get the second one.
Re. inspection, I have never used his services but Peter Morgan knows his onions and has a good reputation as far as I know. www.petermorgan.org.uk/
Best of luck
aceparts_com said:
B) the noise is the hydraulic booster pump. Runs intermittently. Normally runs for 20 seconds when you turn the ignition on.
Get car checked out.
interestingly enough, I get some kind of fan coming on as I turn on the ignition key from cold. If you leave the ignition on without starting the engine, it runs for about 20 seconds (every time). Is this the hydraulic booster pump you mention? It just doesn't sound like a pump
>> Edited by silver993tt on Wednesday 23 March 13:50
Odd pump noises during the drive are not normal. Pump coming on intermittently during drive? Loud enough to hear over the engine? i don't think so....
Clutch should not be stiffer than on a Chim (i've had 2 993's and a Chim). My 993 C4S clutch was almost as stiff as my Chim clutch when it gave up, but it was 7 years old and had done almost 82k miles (yes i got 80k miles out of a 993 clutch, it IS possible). Budget 1k for a clutch.
Don't worry about the idle, probably just that the idle stabiliser valve needs removing and a good clean with carb cleaner. This takes 10 minutes and is easy. Only really a problem if the car stalls when you stop at the lights.
Fuel, oil level (as has been discussed), then oil temp and then oil pressure.
Oil pressure should be 2+ when idle, way up around 5 when driving (hot).
Oil temp should come up to the 1/3 mark on the temp guage (just below horizontal) within 3 or 4 minutes from cold start. On a hot day in traffic, it may get as high as the 2/3 mark. Never seen a 993 in the red EVER.
Oil level should be horizontal when car is hot (1/3 mark on temp guage), at idle, and stationary. If slightly above or below nothing to worry about. If doesn't come off the red at the bottom, it needs topping up. Question is, by how much???
HTH
VS
P.S. I'd walk away from this. Have you seen the C4 that just appeared in the PH classifieds? That looks like a much better bet for the money, though i'd still get it inspected (and drive it!).
Clutch should not be stiffer than on a Chim (i've had 2 993's and a Chim). My 993 C4S clutch was almost as stiff as my Chim clutch when it gave up, but it was 7 years old and had done almost 82k miles (yes i got 80k miles out of a 993 clutch, it IS possible). Budget 1k for a clutch.
Don't worry about the idle, probably just that the idle stabiliser valve needs removing and a good clean with carb cleaner. This takes 10 minutes and is easy. Only really a problem if the car stalls when you stop at the lights.
Fuel, oil level (as has been discussed), then oil temp and then oil pressure.
Oil pressure should be 2+ when idle, way up around 5 when driving (hot).
Oil temp should come up to the 1/3 mark on the temp guage (just below horizontal) within 3 or 4 minutes from cold start. On a hot day in traffic, it may get as high as the 2/3 mark. Never seen a 993 in the red EVER.
Oil level should be horizontal when car is hot (1/3 mark on temp guage), at idle, and stationary. If slightly above or below nothing to worry about. If doesn't come off the red at the bottom, it needs topping up. Question is, by how much???
HTH
VS
P.S. I'd walk away from this. Have you seen the C4 that just appeared in the PH classifieds? That looks like a much better bet for the money, though i'd still get it inspected (and drive it!).
Here in Hungary you cannot get fully comp insurance on a car if you do not get both key fobs, unless you change all the locks, or alarm. The reason - direputable people/dealers sell the second set of keys to car thieves and tell them where you live. Hey Presto, two weeks later the car is stolen from you.
verysideways said:
P.S. I'd walk away from this. Have you seen the C4 that just appeared in the PH classifieds? That looks like a much better bet for the money, though i'd still get it inspected (and drive it!).
I agree with VS on both counts plus by the photo it looks like a turbo body carsilver993tt said:
B) the noise is the hydraulic booster pump. Runs intermittently. Normally runs for 20 seconds when you turn the ignition on.
Get car checked out.
interestingly enough, I get some kind of fan coming on as I turn on the ignition key from cold. If you leave the ignition on without starting the engine, it runs for about 20 seconds (every time). Is this the hydraulic booster pump you mention? It just doesn't sound like a pump
>> Edited by silver993tt on Wednesday 23 March 13:50
If you turn the heater temp down to the coldest setting, then the fan won't come on.
The fan should only come on if the interior of the car is colder than the temp selected on the dial.
This is all assuming that the 993 works the same way as the 964 btw.
AC79xxx said:
Good point - it's certainly got the front bumper and sills of a wide body car, but it also has the "bumperettes" of a North American spec car (i believe Arab cars had these bumperettes also). Interesting... could it be too cheap?
VS
The Porsche Post dropped thru my door today. How about a 67,000 mile 1994 993 (not sure whether it's a C2 or C4), silver, red leather, cruise, trip, aircon, clear indicators, sports suspension, phone, CD, electric seats, fsh, current owner 5 years....£21,995. Private sale - in Southend Essex...mail me if you want the contact number...
rubystone said:
The Porsche Post dropped thru my door today. How about a 67,000 mile 1994 993 (not sure whether it's a C2 or C4), silver, red leather, cruise, trip, aircon, clear indicators, sports suspension, phone, CD, electric seats, fsh, current owner 5 years....£21,995. Private sale - in Southend Essex...mail me if you want the contact number...
That could well be my old 993. If it is then I can vouch for it-one fine car! I kept if tor a year or so having bought it from Nick Faure. I sold it to RSJ who then sold it on. That was around 5 years ago. It was total spec and had the funkiest red leather interior you have ever seen-no part was plastic. everything (and I mean everything) was covered in red leather (even indicator stalks)-Oh I loved that car!
rubystone said:
The Porsche Post dropped thru my door today. How about a 67,000 mile 1994 993 (not sure whether it's a C2 or C4), silver, red leather, cruise, trip, aircon, clear indicators, sports suspension, phone, CD, electric seats, fsh, current owner 5 years....£21,995. Private sale - in Southend Essex...mail me if you want the contact number...
Blimey! Is that RHD or LHD? Haven`t got my PP yet...
Or what about this one in Autotrader...
PORSCHE 911 993, L reg.
75,000 original miles, LHD, FPSH, used in car magazine, 4 new tyres, 18 Carrera 4 new alloys, full years Mot & Tax, handsfree, Pioneer face off stereo, Cat alarm/immobiliser, serious car real head turner no timewasters. £19,760 . ono
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