Underage drinking laws in pubs

[mickmcpaddy]

I've had a quick look round google and the laws regarding this all seem to be for the sale of alcohol as opposed to the drinking of it. Occasionally we do some work at the other end of the Country and stay overnight, we now have a 16 (almost 17) year old apprentice with us and as far as I'm concerned, and everybody else on site, if he can work away then he can have a drink after work.

Now I know its illegal to buy an under 18 a drink in a pub and also for the pub to sell it to him but as far as I can work out there is no mention of him doing anything illegal by drinking that drink, so as far as I can see if he has done nothing wrong then there is no need for him to give any details to the police. And if he doesn't give any details to the police there is no evidence he is under 18, so no proof of any offence.

Is this correct legally?

PS No need for the "Wont somebody think of the children" snowflakes to reply.

[esxste]

Most pubs serve food as well. It's legal for a 16-17 year old to be served alcohol with food.

Well last time I checked the law.

It's beeen a while since I was 17 tho

Here you go:

https://www.gov.uk/alcohol-young-people-law


ETA:

You/others can buy alcohol for him (with a meal).

It's illegal for the pub to serve him directly and would contravene their license, and the individual who serves the drink may be personally fined a significant sum.

Edited by esxste on Tuesday 14th February 17:09

Edited by esxste on Tuesday 14th February 17:09

[Derek Smith]

mickmcpaddy said:

I've had a quick look round google and the laws regarding this all seem to be for the sale of alcohol as opposed to the drinking of it. Occasionally we do some work at the other end of the Country and stay overnight, we now have a 16 (almost 17) year old apprentice with us and as far as I'm concerned, and everybody else on site, if he can work away then he can have a drink after work.

Now I know its illegal to buy an under 18 a drink in a pub and also for the pub to sell it to him but as far as I can work out there is no mention of him doing anything illegal by drinking that drink, so as far as I can see if he has done nothing wrong then there is no need for him to give any details to the police. And if he doesn't give any details to the police there is no evidence he is under 18, so no proof of any offence.

Is this correct legally?

PS No need for the "Wont somebody think of the children" snowflakes to reply.

Hi, I used to be on the licensing unit in Brighton. However, I've been called a snowflake so sorry, can't reply.

[mickmcpaddy]

Derek Smith said:

mickmcpaddy said:

I've had a quick look round google and the laws regarding this all seem to be for the sale of alcohol as opposed to the drinking of it. Occasionally we do some work at the other end of the Country and stay overnight, we now have a 16 (almost 17) year old apprentice with us and as far as I'm concerned, and everybody else on site, if he can work away then he can have a drink after work.

Now I know its illegal to buy an under 18 a drink in a pub and also for the pub to sell it to him but as far as I can work out there is no mention of him doing anything illegal by drinking that drink, so as far as I can see if he has done nothing wrong then there is no need for him to give any details to the police. And if he doesn't give any details to the police there is no evidence he is under 18, so no proof of any offence.

Is this correct legally?

PS No need for the "Wont somebody think of the children" snowflakes to reply.

Hi, I used to be on the licensing unit in Brighton. However, I've been called a snowflake so sorry, can't reply.

Oh the irony

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

mickmcpaddy said:

I've had a quick look round google and the laws regarding this all seem to be for the sale of alcohol as opposed to the drinking of it. Occasionally we do some work at the other end of the Country and stay overnight, we now have a 16 (almost 17) year old apprentice with us and as far as I'm concerned, and everybody else on site, if he can work away then he can have a drink after work.

Now I know its illegal to buy an under 18 a drink in a pub and also for the pub to sell it to him but as far as I can work out there is no mention of him doing anything illegal by drinking that drink, so as far as I can see if he has done nothing wrong then there is no need for him to give any details to the police. And if he doesn't give any details to the police there is no evidence he is under 18, so no proof of any offence.

Is this correct legally?

PS No need for the "Wont somebody think of the children" snowflakes to reply.

Hi, I used to be on the licensing unit in Brighton. However, I've been called a snowflake so sorry, can't reply.

I thought the licensing unit only employed snow flakes

• flame suit on*

[Vaud]

Have food. Stay seated, take your time. Let him enjoy a few beers.

The boundary between eating a meal and just "drinking" is probably one of discretion for police?

https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/alcohol...

Solution would be to have pub meals and stay at the table?

Edit: or you could do what our drama teacher did and insist that we drank rum and coke, or vodka and lemonade and just keep it less obvious. Though ironically spirits aren't allowed for 16 year olds even with a meal.

[voyds9]

Nothing to stop him having a can in his room

[singlecoil]

Ask the licensee. He will know the law and he will know what he wants to risk, and how big a risk it is.

Unless he too is a snowflake, of course.

[bobtail4x4]

look up In loco parentis,
his parents (or guardian)can buy him alcohol if over 14.

[Evanivitch]

I'm not sure the last time I saw a police officer in a pub. I imagine the proprietor is most likely your concern. They'll apply the law however they see fit.

bobtail4x4 said:

look up In loco parentis,
his parents (or guardian)can buy him alcohol if over 14.

For consumption at home.

[Derek Smith]

Learn2MergeInTurn said:

I thought the licensing unit only employed snow flakes

• flame suit on*

It was probably one of the most productive units I was on. There were major problems with drunks in Brighton in the middle 80s with brawls, police being assaulted and criminal damage. A sergeant put forward the idea of enforcement of the regulations proactively, hence our small unit. We went to the pubs, and particularly the clubs, to report for offences and also, as it turned out, assist the licencees with problems they might have. It was a bit 'difficult' at first.

Walking into a pub or club when alcohol had been served for some hours often met with, let's say, good natured joshing. This sometimes included confrontation, threats and offers to go outside. I had beer splashed on me from behind and a discussion with the licencee produced a ban from premises for the chap he suggested was concerned. Afterwards I asked him if it was indeed the chap and he said it was one of his group so any would have done.

Once I had a bloke come up to me and just stand there, face a few inches from mine. I've got a loud voice so I yelled out as loudly as I could: 'Licencee, this man is drunk.' The licencee ran from behind his counter, took hold of the chap's arm and marched him from the pub, putting his unfinished pint on the counter. Instead of having my back splashed with beer, I was patted so I assume the bloke had been a bit of a pain before.

After the first few months things changed. The licencees got on our side, seeing that we were out for change rather than prosecution, unless pushed, and they were more assertive when the conduct of their clientele fell below what was acceptable. The inspector in occasional charge of us, and the sergeant, were tee-total and offers of drinks were firmly refused.

The arrests for drunken behaviour, and associated crimes, like criminal damage, dropped remarkably. Public order problems were notably less frequent and less 'energetic'. Injuries to us snowflakes dropped.

When I later took over a shift in Brighton, one of my female officers was punched outside a pub. Everyone ran away, leaving no one to prosecute. So every night for a fortnight, the licencing unit had an officer in the pub. The following set of seven nights I was on duty and straight from muster I went to the pub and stayed there until closing time. In my remaining 20 months in charge of the shift we didn't get another call to what had been, up until then, a problem pub.

The problem was, I think, that the regulations are complex and there are multiple conditions. The book, Paterson's Licencing Justices, the bible of licencing regs, was not the most interesting read. We took specific regs and enforced them for periods.

When things work well it is always a boost. A productive week makes you work harder.

[BoRED S2upid]

As an ex licensee I'd be opting for a large place that serves food as well and get round it that way. Your going to need to eat as well as just drink if your away on business.

[bobtail4x4]

Evanivitch said:

I'm not sure the last time I saw a police officer in a pub. I imagine the proprietor is most likely your concern. They'll apply the law however they see fit.

bobtail4x4 said:

look up In loco parentis,
his parents (or guardian)can buy him alcohol if over 14.

For consumption at home.

no in a public house or restaurant,
I used to be a licencing officer for the local authority.

[Vaud]

Derek Smith said:

It was probably one of the most productive units I was on. There were major problems with drunks in Brighton in the middle 80s with brawls, police being assaulted and criminal damage. A sergeant put forward the idea of enforcement of the regulations proactively, hence our small unit. We went to the pubs, and particularly the clubs, to report for offences and also, as it turned out, assist the licencees with problems they might have. It was a bit 'difficult' at first.

Walking into a pub or club when alcohol had been served for some hours often met with, let's say, good natured joshing. This sometimes included confrontation, threats and offers to go outside. I had beer splashed on me from behind and a discussion with the licencee produced a ban from premises for the chap he suggested was concerned. Afterwards I asked him if it was indeed the chap and he said it was one of his group so any would have done.

Once I had a bloke come up to me and just stand there, face a few inches from mine. I've got a loud voice so I yelled out as loudly as I could: 'Licencee, this man is drunk.' The licencee ran from behind his counter, took hold of the chap's arm and marched him from the pub, putting his unfinished pint on the counter. Instead of having my back splashed with beer, I was patted so I assume the bloke had been a bit of a pain before.

After the first few months things changed. The licencees got on our side, seeing that we were out for change rather than prosecution, unless pushed, and they were more assertive when the conduct of their clientele fell below what was acceptable. The inspector in occasional charge of us, and the sergeant, were tee-total and offers of drinks were firmly refused.

The arrests for drunken behaviour, and associated crimes, like criminal damage, dropped remarkably. Public order problems were notably less frequent and less 'energetic'. Injuries to us snowflakes dropped.

When I later took over a shift in Brighton, one of my female officers was punched outside a pub. Everyone ran away, leaving no one to prosecute. So every night for a fortnight, the licencing unit had an officer in the pub. The following set of seven nights I was on duty and straight from muster I went to the pub and stayed there until closing time. In my remaining 20 months in charge of the shift we didn't get another call to what had been, up until then, a problem pub.

The problem was, I think, that the regulations are complex and there are multiple conditions. The book, Paterson's Licencing Justices, the bible of licencing regs, was not the most interesting read. We took specific regs and enforced them for periods.

When things work well it is always a boost. A productive week makes you work harder.

Shame there isn't more of that. I always thought that we need to tackle supply and demand in problem pubs, but rarely hear the threat to licence for serving people who are drunk.

[Evanivitch]

bobtail4x4 said:

Evanivitch said:

I'm not sure the last time I saw a police officer in a pub. I imagine the proprietor is most likely your concern. They'll apply the law however they see fit.

bobtail4x4 said:

look up In loco parentis,
his parents (or guardian)can buy him alcohol if over 14.

For consumption at home.

no in a public house or restaurant,
I used to be a licencing officer for the local authority.

Reference? I can't find anything of the sort.

[Bigends]

Back in the early 70's we all knew where we could get an underage pint. We'd only have a couple, not cause any problems and stay tucked quietly in the corner of the pub. They were proper pubs then, no food and were probably glad of the extra business. It would be a once a week occasion - no harm done.

[defblade]

Bigends said:

Back in the early 70's we all knew where we could get an underage pint. We'd only have a couple, not cause any problems and stay tucked quietly in the corner of the pub. They were proper pubs then, no food and were probably glad of the extra business. It would be a once a week occasion - no harm done.

Through the 80s, too. And probably today, still, if you're just having a couple of quiet ones and not starting fights...

[Derek Smith]

Vaud said:

Shame there isn't more of that. I always thought that we need to tackle supply and demand in problem pubs, but rarely hear the threat to licence for serving people who are drunk.

The idea came from a sergeant. The best source of practical, workable and useful ideas. After a period of the unit being successful, the chief super decided that it was ripe for civilianisation. Not one of his ideas, you see.

We visited the gay clubs and, to a lessor extent, the gay pubs although the latter gave no/little problems. But the clubs were a trail for any bloke.

Many of the clubs put the more, er, overtly gay blokes on the door and the welcome we got was always very, well perhaps enthusiastic isn't quite the word, perhaps excited is better. We'd take some stick but it was always good natured. I was in town, off duty, with my wife and some friends when one of the door chaps on his way to work - the club - came over to say hello. After a few minutes' performance, he had my wife and her friends in stitches. We went to a pub and the girls kept bursting into laughter. I deliberately did not tell the two blokes how I knew the gay chap, or why, according to him, we 'frequently indulged our various needs' in The Queen, the club.

Next time at the club, I called him a 'right bugger' and this was the cue for screams of indignation.

I was on patrol in West Street and two blokes came up to me and one flashed a warrant card from the Mets. I was asked for a good night club that allowed 'concessions' for Old Bill. So I told them to go to the bottom of the street and on the left they'd find the Pink Coconut. I always wondered how they enjoyed it. The blokes on the door would have picked up the situation straight away, waved them in, behaving normally, or at least as nearly as they could.

[wibble cb]

I started frequenting pubs from the age of 14, it helped being rather tall and polite, I never got asked for id or refused service either, I once had to buy a friend his beers from an off licence on his 18th birthday, as he got refused service,
He as actually 6mths older than me!

[caelite]

defblade said:

Bigends said:

Back in the early 70's we all knew where we could get an underage pint. We'd only have a couple, not cause any problems and stay tucked quietly in the corner of the pub. They were proper pubs then, no food and were probably glad of the extra business. It would be a once a week occasion - no harm done.

Through the 80s, too. And probably today, still, if you're just having a couple of quiet ones and not starting fights...

Yup through the late 00s too, there was 2 (out of the 8 or 9) pubs in town which you could reliably get served in the moment you became old enough to have a hair on your chin or some cleavage to flash. It seemed to change however in '11 or' 12 (coincidentally around when I turned 18) there seemed to be some kind of crackdown, it seemed all of a sudden all the pubs started demanding passports or driving licences, declining the obviously fake student ID cards we had. This is around the same time THINK21 was phased out in favour of Challenge25. Same happened in cornershops who all of a sudden started demanding ID for fags.

I've had many a work night out with our underaged apprentices and it genuinely is a nightmare nowadays (in Scotland at least). I know my little brother (who's 16) just goes too under 18s clubs where it's almost guaranteed someone is peddling drink, along with an assortment of other much nastier things, in the secluded corners and bathrooms.