Discussion
Hello All
After many many years, a phase of the lightweight kitcar thing, a brief two wheeled phase (still in garage), it is now Griffith time.
Am currently looking at two models, 93L and 98S (both 500's) and doing some head scratching as I'm not sure if I want a car that I can sell in a year or two with negligable loss or one to keep for a long time. Depends if I need to move away in a year or two to pastures new to move forward in the world of work..
Also pondering on the technical differences, as far as I am aware:-
Pre - serpentine engine (93) - not as happy at low revs (would like to trek to work in summer sometimes, involving a 10 min crawl). Have been told that pre-serp car will pull from idle (no throttle - like my diesel yawnmobile 
).
Rover gearbox (93) rather than T5. The bible states T5 better ratios and smoother. However some PH'ers have mentioned they reckon the Rover has nicer action.
Lack of power steering (93). Don't mind, although I've read that PAS helps with control if the rear should step out.
Fatter tyres (98), +1cm on the front and +2cm on the rear.
The particular 98 model has had a TVR engine rebuild, taking power to 322bhp (with dyno to prove it, although I'm not fully clear on what the differences are - it was before "Taraka")
Subtle interior changes on newer model.
Any other differences that peeps are aware of?
Comments (serious or silly) welcome...
Edited for omissions and getting r's and k's mixed up !!!
>>> Edited by RichardD on Thursday 24th March 14:14
After many many years, a phase of the lightweight kitcar thing, a brief two wheeled phase (still in garage), it is now Griffith time.
Am currently looking at two models, 93L and 98S (both 500's) and doing some head scratching as I'm not sure if I want a car that I can sell in a year or two with negligable loss or one to keep for a long time. Depends if I need to move away in a year or two to pastures new to move forward in the world of work..
Also pondering on the technical differences, as far as I am aware:-
Pre - serpentine engine (93) - not as happy at low revs (would like to trek to work in summer sometimes, involving a 10 min crawl
). Have been told that pre-serp car will pull from idle (no throttle - like my diesel yawnmobile ). Rover gearbox (93) rather than T5. The bible states T5 better ratios and smoother. However some PH'ers have mentioned they reckon the Rover has nicer action.
Lack of power steering (93). Don't mind, although I've read that PAS helps with control if the rear should step out.
Fatter tyres (98), +1cm on the front and +2cm on the rear.
The particular 98 model has had a TVR engine rebuild, taking power to 322bhp (with dyno to prove it, although I'm not fully clear on what the differences are - it was before "Taraka")
Subtle interior changes on newer model.
Any other differences that peeps are aware of?
Comments (serious or silly) welcome...
Edited for omissions and getting r's and k's mixed up !!!
>>> Edited by RichardD on Thursday 24th March 14:14
You are saying that you do not want a pre-cat Griff', yet this is the one to go for as much as an early 500. Some may disagree, but best bet is simply to drive an example of each to see which suits you best. really each car has its own personality too.
My own 4.3 pre-cat gives all the power I need and some left over.
My own 4.3 pre-cat gives all the power I need and some left over.
It is Taraka and not Takara.
Best to get a drive in a couple and see what you think - this should give you a preference, early or late. I agree that if you are look at early pre serps then you may be better off with a precat which are certainly holding their value.
Personally I think PAS is a waste of time and only any use below 5mph when parking. We've currently got a Tuscan whilst the Griff is in for a respray which has PAS and it doesn't give as much feedback.
FFG
Best to get a drive in a couple and see what you think - this should give you a preference, early or late. I agree that if you are look at early pre serps then you may be better off with a precat which are certainly holding their value.
Personally I think PAS is a waste of time and only any use below 5mph when parking. We've currently got a Tuscan whilst the Griff is in for a respray which has PAS and it doesn't give as much feedback.
FFG
crankedup said:
You are saying that you do not want a pre-cat Griff', yet this is the one to go for as much as an early 500. Some may disagree, but best bet is simply to drive an example of each to see which suits you best. really each car has its own personality too.
My own 4.3 pre-cat gives all the power I need and some left over.
Oops, my message was incomplete, both cars are 500's. Would certainly consider good 4.3 pre-cat (the most pure noise too
), don't know how long it would take to track a good one down though....
i dont think youd be unhappy with either,but both cars you mention would be quite different to live with id imagine.the newer car will be better developed with subtle but usefull differences.i think youve got the serp and pre-serp mixed up btw
.the latter car will have the stronger t5 box,better oil pump and improved cooling of the serp engine.it may also have the later btr diff?,individually fused cooling fans and other subtle mods possibly.there are a few differences between my 2000 car and my previous '96 car and the car is so much the better for it.however you mention that the '98 car has been modified,so i wouldnt want to comment on how it might drive,as itll be quite different from std,the pre-serp will be a little more difficult to drive around town than a std later serp car of '98 vintage though.in short id choose the '98 car as long as you enjoy the drive,but both shouldnt loose you too much in depreciation if you buy at the correct price and look after them.griff prices are slowly rising.
>> Edited by mongoose on Thursday 24th March 13:53
.the latter car will have the stronger t5 box,better oil pump and improved cooling of the serp engine.it may also have the later btr diff?,individually fused cooling fans and other subtle mods possibly.there are a few differences between my 2000 car and my previous '96 car and the car is so much the better for it.however you mention that the '98 car has been modified,so i wouldnt want to comment on how it might drive,as itll be quite different from std,the pre-serp will be a little more difficult to drive around town than a std later serp car of '98 vintage though.in short id choose the '98 car as long as you enjoy the drive,but both shouldnt loose you too much in depreciation if you buy at the correct price and look after them.griff prices are slowly rising. >> Edited by mongoose on Thursday 24th March 13:53
I wanted to buy this one www.jamesagger.com/used_cars/stocklistgallery.asp?id=211
Wrong time unfortunatley, but what a minter...
Wrong time unfortunatley, but what a minter...
Absolutly agree. Apart from the obvious (engine size) buy on condition only. Age and mile mean very little. Got my 98 500 from a dealer, paid too much and made some silly assumptions about preparation and after sales. After a little over a year of effort and cost the car is now approaching what I thought it was. Having previously bought a TVR privately from a pedantic anorak with a heated carpeted garage, who made you take your shoes off to go indoors, I can compare the two. Without doubt I will buy privately from a pedant next time.
The single biggest problem is being sufficiently strong willed to say no and walk away. You must must must look at and drive several, preferably loads.
Main things I would look more closely at next time are :-
Suspension bushes. Check that the wishbones are central in the chassis mounts, if they have wandered forward and are rubbing against the chassis then new bushes required.
Rust. Poke, Prod and Scrape at the flaky paint on the wishbones and chassis rails. Don’t just glance at it, take a proper long look. If it has been really cared for obviously there will be no flaky paint.
Diff. Listen carefully to the noise the transmission makes and check the LSD works, see if it is leaking, probably bad news if it is.
Rubber Gaiters. Carefully check the ones on the drive shafts and steering rack.
Dampers. Are they new and shiny or old and tatty, whatever you will probably soon be spending £800 on a new set of Nitrons anyway.
Starter Motor. Get the car hot and check, several times that the starter still works.
Singe most important point however is GET ONE SOON until then you are missing out.
The single biggest problem is being sufficiently strong willed to say no and walk away. You must must must look at and drive several, preferably loads.
Main things I would look more closely at next time are :-
Suspension bushes. Check that the wishbones are central in the chassis mounts, if they have wandered forward and are rubbing against the chassis then new bushes required.
Rust. Poke, Prod and Scrape at the flaky paint on the wishbones and chassis rails. Don’t just glance at it, take a proper long look. If it has been really cared for obviously there will be no flaky paint.
Diff. Listen carefully to the noise the transmission makes and check the LSD works, see if it is leaking, probably bad news if it is.
Rubber Gaiters. Carefully check the ones on the drive shafts and steering rack.
Dampers. Are they new and shiny or old and tatty, whatever you will probably soon be spending £800 on a new set of Nitrons anyway.
Starter Motor. Get the car hot and check, several times that the starter still works.
Singe most important point however is GET ONE SOON until then you are missing out.
Speaking of Mr Agger, he had a black one, and a yellow one the week before last. If they haven't gone, I'd give them a test drive.
In answer to another question, yes the later car will have the BTR diff.
Have to agree with FFG - mine's non-PAS and I do like the feedback it gives from the road.
In answer to another question, yes the later car will have the BTR diff.
Have to agree with FFG - mine's non-PAS and I do like the feedback it gives from the road.
rude girl said:ill third that.my first griff was unassisted and i miss this now i have pas on the new one.trouble is the wife prefers the pas
Have to agree with FFG - mine's non-PAS and I do like the feedback it gives from the road.
so im not allowed to change it
!-still,she does drive back from the pub
RichardD said:It just so happens that I know of a tip top 4.3 for sale at this very moment
You are saying that you do not want a pre-cat Griff', yet this is the one to go for as much as an early 500. Some may disagree, but best bet is simply to drive an example of each to see which suits you best. really each car has its own personality too.
My own 4.3 pre-cat gives all the power I need and some left over.
Oops, my message was incomplete, both cars are 500's. Would certainly consider good 4.3 pre-cat (the most pure noise too
Thanks everyone for the comments / advice.
Feel my head was a bit on fire before
, the decision to take the plunge has been quite sudden since I'm generally allergic to spending money, but some forces are too great to resist .
Although super rational and logical on the outside, on the inside I'm like a little boy restless like on Xmas eve
. That list of technicalities was irrelivent, newer generally is technically better, but doesn't necessarily mean character. I think a Z3M is technically excellent, but I feel I would rather stick wasps up my ars*.
Cars mentioned have been driven, the older supposed lumpy engine was fine at slow speed, couldn't tell any difference and totally forgot about lack of power steering...
Homework done, TVRCC joined, bible read and currently things are afoot, news soon........
Feel my head was a bit on fire before
, the decision to take the plunge has been quite sudden since I'm generally allergic to spending money, but some forces are too great to resist . Although super rational and logical on the outside, on the inside I'm like a little boy restless like on Xmas eve
. That list of technicalities was irrelivent, newer generally is technically better, but doesn't necessarily mean character. I think a Z3M is technically excellent, but I feel I would rather stick wasps up my ars*. Cars mentioned have been driven, the older supposed lumpy engine was fine at slow speed, couldn't tell any difference and totally forgot about lack of power steering...
Homework done, TVRCC joined, bible read and currently things are afoot, news soon........
flasher said:
I wanted to buy this one
Wrong time unfortunatley, but what a minter...
Woah!!!!!
That looks gorgeous - I take it this one's been snapped up now?
Edited to add, so it has - and a beautiful Jet Black one.....
Must be some happy new Griff owners out there!
>> Edited by beano500 on Friday 1st April 12:52
Being new to Griff ownership (still missing the S) my observations are: my 4.0 Pre cats seems fine at low speeds, expect maybe around 1200 rpm in 1st , just trundling along. But then, how many times do you drive at 1200rpm. The car pulls very well in any gear and makes a great noise.
But then my car id far from standar.
But then my car id far from standar.
Had both so feel able to comment.
The later 98 car will be much more complete, although the earlier one will be a bit 'rougher' round the edges (ride, handling, engine tractability etc). Depends on the later cars upgrade really I expect.
Would always go for later model as build quality generally better.
Suppose it does'nt really matter at the end of the day, just do it and enjoy.
Richard
The later 98 car will be much more complete, although the earlier one will be a bit 'rougher' round the edges (ride, handling, engine tractability etc). Depends on the later cars upgrade really I expect.
Would always go for later model as build quality generally better.
Suppose it does'nt really matter at the end of the day, just do it and enjoy.
Richard
mrmaggit said:
When you see your Griff, it will talk to you. If it doesn't, it's not the one for you.
So true.
I had a shopping list and the Griff I bought did not have most of the items I said I wanted and I DEFINITELY did not want a red one.
In fact I think the only thing that was completely right is, it is a Griff.
I knew as soon as the garage door opened it was the one for me.
Elizabeth
Ding said:
When you see your Griff, it will talk to you. If it doesn't, it's not the one for you.
So true.
I had a shopping list and the Griff I bought did not have most of the items I said I wanted and I DEFINITELY did not want a red one.
In fact I think the only thing that was completely right is, it is a Griff.
I knew as soon as the garage door opened it was the one for me.
Elizabeth
Yep, when we went to see Wol, as soon as I saw him, there was no way we weren't buying him. It made it really hard not to just grab the documents and sign on the dotted. Kevin and Julia had done him proud, in fact, James Agger still uses the photo of Wols engine bay on his website from time to time. The bay is a bit dirtier nowadays, but then he does do lots more miles. He was the first Griff we looked at, and we wanted one with a dark red outside/light grey interior. So we get a Montreal Blue with Doeskin.
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