Help Overloaded
Discussion
Last year (well it will be 6 months ago tomorrow) I was helping my father shift a load of stuff for his business from the midlands down to Hampshire.
We had hired a Merc Luton Sprinter thing and filled it about 2/3rds up before starting driving back, he was driving and I was following in my car. Shortly after joining the M40 we were pulled over by the bib who said they thought the van could be overloaded as it was sitting low on its springs and asked us to follow them to a Weigh area (which obviously we did) they weighed it and indeed it was, I think it was 4 tons instead of 3 or 3 instead of 2 ie it was about a ton over.
We then emptied a load of stuff out (some went into my car and some into my mums and I did two trips) he has recieved a summons through this morning which I think is a little harsh as it was complete naievity on our part we kept putting stuff into it until it looked about full ish.
What is he likely to get, should he go to the court and argue mitigating circumstances should he just plead guilty.
Would appreciate any help.
Ben
We had hired a Merc Luton Sprinter thing and filled it about 2/3rds up before starting driving back, he was driving and I was following in my car. Shortly after joining the M40 we were pulled over by the bib who said they thought the van could be overloaded as it was sitting low on its springs and asked us to follow them to a Weigh area (which obviously we did) they weighed it and indeed it was, I think it was 4 tons instead of 3 or 3 instead of 2 ie it was about a ton over.
We then emptied a load of stuff out (some went into my car and some into my mums and I did two trips) he has recieved a summons through this morning which I think is a little harsh as it was complete naievity on our part we kept putting stuff into it until it looked about full ish.
What is he likely to get, should he go to the court and argue mitigating circumstances should he just plead guilty.
Would appreciate any help.
Ben
Ignorance is no excuse for being overloaded, it's up to you to make sure the vehicle is legal before putting it on the road. If I overloaded my truck by 25% to 33% as you did with your van I would expect to be looking at a £1000+ fine and possibly my licence revoked.
As you are no doubt not professional drivers you will probably get off a lot lighter.
As you are no doubt not professional drivers you will probably get off a lot lighter.
I had a similar problem when running the carfleet for a major fizzy drinks company. We used to hire out lwb transits to send reps out full of 2L bottles of fizz.
A LOT were pulled over by BiB and warned, but none were ever prosecuted. The limit in a lwb tranny was 1600 Kgs - I still remember it
This was around 1/3 full of bottles!!
A LOT were pulled over by BiB and warned, but none were ever prosecuted. The limit in a lwb tranny was 1600 Kgs - I still remember it
This was around 1/3 full of bottles!!parrot of doom said:
I think the BiB did the correct thing, the vehicle was overloaded which would reduce its ability to maneouvere safely (including braking).
Oh Apsolutely I have no problem with the police pulling us over due to it being overloaded.
My point is that as someone who does not normally drive an estate let alone a Van we had not realised that it was overloaded (I must be honest I had looked in the back and said naah it can't be overloaded it is only half full) - As soon as we realised it was overloaded we stopped and removed enough of the contents to ensure it wasn't
If we were some kind of haulage company that did it every day then a large fine would probably be in order, however as it was blatantly obvious that it was an honest mistake, I think a summons is a little harsh especially as it was 6 months ago.
If it is a case that it is likely to be effectively some kind of £60 FPN then pleading guilty in court is probably the way to go, if however they are likely to impose a £1000 fine then it would be worth fighting.
I wondered if any Bib could shed some light on what is the likely punishment and what would be the best course of action to take.
Cheers
Ben
Maximum fine for exceeding axle weight/overall plated weight (two offences) is 5000 BPS not that Mags will do that. Goods news is that there is no points attached but they could disqualify.
Contrition and sackcloth seems the order of the day but remember ignorance of the law is no excuse in the legal field.
From your post you were aware it is not right to overload. There are facilities scattered around the country i.e. Private Weighbridges, where the load could have been checked and if you were stopped on the way to one it is a defence.
DVD
Contrition and sackcloth seems the order of the day but remember ignorance of the law is no excuse in the legal field.
From your post you were aware it is not right to overload. There are facilities scattered around the country i.e. Private Weighbridges, where the load could have been checked and if you were stopped on the way to one it is a defence.
DVD
A ton over weight on a vehicle that size is a lot I'm afraid!
As mentioned, it's to do with percentages based on the max gross weight of the van.
Up to about 8% over and I think you just get a warning.
Start getting into the 30% and it gets a bit serious.
Those big,long wheel based vans do not take as much weight as you think especially if it has a tailift fitted.
3 1/2 tons is max gross weight for a van that you have discribed, thats van AND contents.
On the plus side, it was a hired van and not intentional so that is in your favour.
I would guess a fine of about £200, possibly more
BTW, 1/2 ton in the back of each car to make the van legal to continue your journey is pushing it a bit!
Probably made the steering a bit on the light side!
As mentioned, it's to do with percentages based on the max gross weight of the van.
Up to about 8% over and I think you just get a warning.
Start getting into the 30% and it gets a bit serious.
Those big,long wheel based vans do not take as much weight as you think especially if it has a tailift fitted.
3 1/2 tons is max gross weight for a van that you have discribed, thats van AND contents.
On the plus side, it was a hired van and not intentional so that is in your favour.
I would guess a fine of about £200, possibly more
BTW, 1/2 ton in the back of each car to make the van legal to continue your journey is pushing it a bit!
Probably made the steering a bit on the light side!
falcemob said:
I think you should be done for failing to have an operators licence as well
funny you should mention that!
Recieved a letter in the post yesterday from VOSA saying that no action would be taken
although if I was daft enough to do it again I would get clobbered! Letter starts off.."confirmation of apparent offence.." ??
oops, looks like I have hijacked this thread.. sorry.
Ben, I stand to be corrected by the BiB/legal boys, but if it was the first weighbridge you would have been able to weigh yourself ie, you didn't drive past others on your route, this may help your defence/mitigation. I'm sure I've heard in the past, that truck drivers have been stopped, and explained that they have just loaded, and are on their way to check their weight.
Perhaps the BiB have heard of this happening?
Phil
ps, reminds me of a family holiday years ago, where my mum was busy loading kitchen sinks/walpaper/dining room table into the caravan. My old man stopped her and, she explained "it's ok, there's loads of room left"
Perhaps the BiB have heard of this happening?
Phil
ps, reminds me of a family holiday years ago, where my mum was busy loading kitchen sinks/walpaper/dining room table into the caravan. My old man stopped her and, she explained "it's ok, there's loads of room left"
Up to 5% overweight is normally a caution at the weighbridge, having been required to remove the excess.
Exceeding design weights by 10% plus has a marked effect on the ability of the vehicle to steer accurately , corner evenly due to suspension inability to allow springs and dampers to react properly and the overall capacity of the vehicle to stop!
If you were a ton overweight on a 3 or 4 ton MGVW, then you were obviously noticable because of the way the vehicle was sitting on the road.
If you need to do something out of the ordinary from your normal understanding where drivng a vehicle is concerned, it may be advisable to ask someone who knows first before you guess and get it wrong!
Those that just happen to hook up a trailer once or twice without finding out about towing are a prime example!
Those that fail to load there vehicles properly and something falls into the road from it are another regardless of their weight.
Those that decide to use their works van with no seats in the back to take a few mates to the pub or the seaside are another.
If you are not sure about something, then ask first
Someone on this site will be able to give you the answer before you find out the hard way!
Exceeding design weights by 10% plus has a marked effect on the ability of the vehicle to steer accurately , corner evenly due to suspension inability to allow springs and dampers to react properly and the overall capacity of the vehicle to stop!
If you were a ton overweight on a 3 or 4 ton MGVW, then you were obviously noticable because of the way the vehicle was sitting on the road.
If you need to do something out of the ordinary from your normal understanding where drivng a vehicle is concerned, it may be advisable to ask someone who knows first before you guess and get it wrong!
Those that just happen to hook up a trailer once or twice without finding out about towing are a prime example!
Those that fail to load there vehicles properly and something falls into the road from it are another regardless of their weight.
Those that decide to use their works van with no seats in the back to take a few mates to the pub or the seaside are another.
If you are not sure about something, then ask first
Someone on this site will be able to give you the answer before you find out the hard way!
philthy said:
Ben, I stand to be corrected by the BiB/legal boys, but if it was the first weighbridge you would have been able to weigh yourself ie, you didn't drive past others on your route, this may help your defence/mitigation. I'm sure I've heard in the past, that truck drivers have been stopped, and explained that they have just loaded, and are on their way to check their weight.
Perhaps the BiB have heard of this happening?
Phil
You have to come up with that get out at the time, not six months after the offence. Being on the M40 it would be rather difficult to convince the BiB that the nearest weigh bridge is just down the motorway.
One of our drivers was stopped once and the BiB kept asking the driver if he was on the way to a public weigh bridge but he didn't quite get it and said "no, I'm going to the waste tip". He was weighed and then nicked for being overweight. You just can't help some people.
falcemob said:
You have to come up with that get out at the time, not six months after the offence. Being on the M40 it would be rather difficult to convince the BiB that the nearest weigh bridge is just down the motorway.
One of our drivers was stopped once and the BiB kept asking the driver if he was on the way to a public weigh bridge but he didn't quite get it and said "no, I'm going to the waste tip". He was weighed and then nicked for being overweight. You just can't help some people.
True, but not knowing the full details, I thought I'd let him know anyway. Ignorance is no defence, but I'd have thought in this case it would mitigate things slightly. After all, a trucker does it, he knows the limits, a MoP does it, and they get a quick lesson.
Phil
philthy said:
You have to come up with that get out at the time, not six months after the offence. Being on the M40 it would be rather difficult to convince the BiB that the nearest weigh bridge is just down the motorway.
One of our drivers was stopped once and the BiB kept asking the driver if he was on the way to a public weigh bridge but he didn't quite get it and said "no, I'm going to the waste tip". He was weighed and then nicked for being overweight. You just can't help some people.
True, but not knowing the full details, I thought I'd let him know anyway. Ignorance is no defence, but I'd have thought in this case it would mitigate things slightly. After all, a trucker does it, he knows the limits, a MoP does it, and they get a quick lesson.
Phil
That's probably why the licence entitlements and tests have been altered in recent years although I think these type of vans would be unafected by the new rules.
MilnerR said:
Don't some commercial vehicles have markers on the suspension to give you a rough idea as to whether the things overloaded? Or have I simply dreamt it? If i've dreamt it then all rights reserved patent pending etc...
>> Edited by MilnerR on Friday 25th March 18:37
My truck has a weighing device in between the body and chassis, basically the body sits on 6 pads that sense how much weight is on board, it is very accurate when it works but they never seem to work for long.
As has been mentioned on here it did have a tail lift, so that must have limited the weight it could carry a lot.
I knew that if you overloaded a Van/Truck/Car then there would be some kind of fine (because that is just common sense) however I did not realise that it was overloaded, I don't think the police would have believed us if we said we were on the way to a weigh bridge because to be quite honest I would not have known where any of them are.
What surprised me the most is when we had taken enough stuff out to make it underweight it was only about 1/3rd full.
Supplied with a large box on the back of it you would assume it could take a large box full of stuff (as opposed to only being able to take its cubic capacity in polystyrene chippings)
I have told him to ask for it to be transfered to Basingstoke (which is his local court) and then he can attend in person.
Cheers for the help
I knew that if you overloaded a Van/Truck/Car then there would be some kind of fine (because that is just common sense) however I did not realise that it was overloaded, I don't think the police would have believed us if we said we were on the way to a weigh bridge because to be quite honest I would not have known where any of them are.
What surprised me the most is when we had taken enough stuff out to make it underweight it was only about 1/3rd full.
Supplied with a large box on the back of it you would assume it could take a large box full of stuff (as opposed to only being able to take its cubic capacity in polystyrene chippings)
I have told him to ask for it to be transfered to Basingstoke (which is his local court) and then he can attend in person.
Cheers for the help
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