Apollo 13 - Any "rescues" even close?

[bitchstewie]

I've just been watching Apollo 13 and it got me wondering - can anyone thing of any rescues or similar disasters which even compare in the sense of the combination of extremity of circumstances and the sheer number of dots that had to line up for to get a successful outcome?

[saaby93]

Never mind disasters surely getting the sequences of operations to come together to try to land a bomb on Stanley airport must figure high on the list.
How many dots needed to line up there, any one of which could have turned it into a set of planes resting on the sea bed.

[V8FGO]

The only one I can think of in recent years was the Mine rescue in Chile 2010.

[Simpo Two]

The thing about the 'rescue' was that nobody could physically rescue them. It was all done by radio and improvisation - and a team of the best brains in the business.

I wonder whether, if that sort of event happened again, the ground team could do it.

[Eric Mc]

I think the loss of the Columbia crew in 2003 could have been prevented if the right attitude had been displayed by the mission controllers and managers.

Although the movie "Apollo 13" is very good, it does not REALLY get to the bottom of how the controllers and managers in Houston worked REALLY hard and very fast to correctly diagnose what had gone wrong. That bit is skimped in the film as they want to get as quickly as they can to the tale of how they got the crew back.

If you really want a good feel for the actual timeline and problem analysis that happened in the first hour or two after the oxygen tank burst, listen to these Flight Director's Loop recordings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWfnY9cRXO4&t=...

[Steve_D]

Sometimes it takes more than just lining up the dots.

United airlines flight 232 Sioux City.
A lengthy decent and approach and very nearly made it safely to land by extreme use of 'Secondary Effect Of Controls' A feat that I believe nobody has been able to repeat in a simulator.

Steve

[jmorgan]

13 really showed what a great machine the whole set up was.

I believe the tank in question came off 10?

12 had an interesting launch.

But go back a few years. Shackleton had an interesting little hike, no rescue there either.

[MitchT]

Steve_D said:

Sometimes it takes more than just lining up the dots.

United airlines flight 232 Sioux City.
A lengthy decent and approach and very nearly made it safely to land by extreme use of 'Secondary Effect Of Controls' A feat that I believe nobody has been able to repeat in a simulator.

Steve

Don't know about in the sim, but a DHL A300 with no hydraulics was successfully landed using "differential thrust" in 2003.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Baghdad_DHL_att...

[Simpo Two]

jmorgan said:

But go back a few years. Shackleton had an interesting little hike, no rescue there either.

That's probably the endurance feat of all time - though no doubt luck played a part too. There were many expeditions that perished because they ran out of luck or fortitude - Scott, Franklin, Andree etc.

Cherry-Garrard on polar leaders: '...if I am in the devil of a hole and want to get out of it, give me Shackleton every time'.

[jmorgan]

ash73 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyage_of_the_Jame...

Bligh also had a bit of a voyage. Bit warmer though.

[Blaster72]

jmorgan said:

But go back a few years. Shackleton had an interesting little hike, no rescue there either.

That is one of my all time favourite feats of human endurance, those men were definitely made of the right stuff.

The Chilean miners rescue was another example of people pulling together to achieve what was imagined to be impossible.

Oh and I forgot the mention bringing back Mark Watney from Mars, that was pretty special

Edited by Blaster72 on Saturday 4th March 11:55

[shed driver]

Shackleton's feat was also a monumental exercise in absolute precision navigation.

SD.

[jmorgan]

Blaster72 said:

jmorgan said:

But go back a few years. Shackleton had an interesting little hike, no rescue there either.

That is one of my all time favourite feats of human endurance, those men were definitely made of the right stuff.

The Chilean miners rescue was another example of people pulling together to achieve what was imagined to be impossible.

Oh and I forgot the mention bringing back Mark Watney from Mars, that was pretty special

Edited by Blaster72 on Saturday 4th March 11:55

Read about him in some boys own daring do book in the late 60's or 70's. Wonder if I still have it.

[Wobbegong]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25609850

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25573096

The rescue of the Akademik Shokalskiy and Xue Long was pretty tough I imagine. Not on the level of Apollo 13 but still extreme weather conditions.

Remember the people researching vanishing ice at Antarctica who became trapped in the ice at Antarctica?

[Tango13]

Steve_D said:

Sometimes it takes more than just lining up the dots.

United airlines flight 232 Sioux City.
A lengthy decent and approach and very nearly made it safely to land by extreme use of 'Secondary Effect Of Controls' A feat that I believe nobody has been able to repeat in a simulator.

Steve

Another stroke of luck was the call to the local hospitals happened just before a shift change, instead of hours being wasted trying to contact staff in a pre mobile phone era the early shifts simply stayed at work.

[Simpo Two]

Not quite in the same league but a good read, the British North Greenland Expedition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_North_Greenl...

All went well until the supplying Hastings crashed in a white-out close to the camp. The book is 'North Ice', recommended reading. It's a 'comforting' rescue because the technology exists to save them - radio, aeroplanes etc - but will it work in time?

[Vitorio]

Eric Mc said:

I think the loss of the Columbia crew in 2003 could have been prevented if the right attitude had been displayed by the mission controllers and managers.

Reading the wiki-page makes me quite sad about that, The shuttle itself could have only been saved by a (succesfull) improvised bodge in orbit, but due to Atlantis being in an advanced stage of flight preparation, and columbia carrying more consumables then normal, they could have launched a rescue to get the crew home on Atlantis, and ditch Columbia in the ocean.

All the rescue plans carried their own risks though, if Atlantis had suffered a similar foam strike on launch, they would have had two shuttles (and two extra crew) stuck in orbit.

[Eric Mc]

There was always a risk. But I think that it would have been worth it. Columbia could have been powered down, a la Apollo 13, and been kept in orbit for at least another 14 days or so. They could have had Atlantis up and parked beside it within that time frame.

The transfer of the Columbia crew to Atlantis would have been a fairly long process - probably taking at least a day, because of the limited number of EVA suits available.

[Vitorio]

Eric Mc said:

There was always a risk. But I think that it would have been worth it. Columbia could have been powered down, a la Apollo 13, and been kept in orbit for at least another 14 days or so. They could have had Atlantis up and parked beside it within that time frame.

The transfer of the Columbia crew to Atlantis would have been a fairly long process - probably taking at least a day, because of the limited number of EVA suits available.

Yeah, it probably would have been worth it in hindsight.

Honestly though, looking at how complex and yet vulnerable the shuttle was, its kind of surprising they didnt have a standby rescue mission at all times.

[MartyG1987]

Eric Mc said:

I think the loss of the Columbia crew in 2003 could have been prevented if the right attitude had been displayed by the mission controllers and managers.

Although the movie "Apollo 13" is very good, it does not REALLY get to the bottom of how the controllers and managers in Houston worked REALLY hard and very fast to correctly diagnose what had gone wrong. That bit is skimped in the film as they want to get as quickly as they can to the tale of how they got the crew back.

If you really want a good feel for the actual timeline and problem analysis that happened in the first hour or two after the oxygen tank burst, listen to these Flight Director's Loop recordings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWfnY9cRXO4&t=...

Those flight director loops are fascinating, being someone who spends his working day troubleshooting technical problems its interesting to listen to them working through all the possible scenarios and testing to try and work out what actually went wrong