Key cloning?

[BE404]

Hello,

Just a question for other BMW owners as I've had some issues with my car being unforcably broken into.

Its the same thing every time. I wake up in the morning and find that my car door is ajar and all the glove box and central box is open with some invaluable objects of mine scattered around the car. The first time this happened was in 2015 in one part of London and they got a £20 note I left in the car. It happened about 2-3 times again after that and was reported to the police. I then moved to another part of London for a year and it never happened once. I have now moved back to the same area but in a different house and it happened again last week in exactly the same way.

The door is ajar because they probably don't want to make noise when leaving and I definitely am not leaving the car unlocked accidentally. Could this be a key cloning device and has anyone else had the issue before?

Car is a 2014 BMW 4 series.

I spoke to BMW emergency services who booked me into Borehamwood services but they looked at me like this has never happened before and basically asked me 'what do you want us to do about it?' "".

[Locknut]

The short answer is yes, they can clone keys through the diagnostic socket. There are several threads on here about cars being stolen without keys, the biggest has 196 pages! Here it is:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=112...

[nw942]

If you have comfort access this may explain it: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Locknut]

Apologies to BE404, Having re-read your post I think the circumstances in your case may be different to what I had in mind. I hope you have not been reading the whole 196 pages of that thread!

[bad company]

I returned to my 2014 3 series to find the boot open last year. I don't know how it was done but nothing was taken ( boot was full as on holiday). I suspect that I came back in time to disturb whoever opened it.

[kingofdbrits]

The EU passed a law so car manufacturers have to share their technical information with independant garages so new keys can be programmed, and inevitably the information will fall into the wrong hands, so this isn't a BMW problem, its a problem for every car manufacturer, just the more expensive cars will tend to get targetted more. You won't hear about a spate of Dacia thefts, but they're just as vulnerable.

You never know, perhaps we can lobby government to allow BMW UK to encrypt their data after Brexit and stop this kind of stuff from happeneing? Though that will mean expensive new keys, but atleast your car won't get stolen.
Until such time, buy a disklock and a cctv camera.

[bad company]

kingofdbrits said:

Until such time, buy a disklock and a cctv camera.

Good points. I just looked at the disklock website, they're probably effective but ugly and awkward looking to carry in the boot. I'm also concerned about marking the steering wheel. Is there a good alternative?

[smashy]

I can tell you exactly whats happening ,they are walking down the street scanning houses their software will lock on to your keyfob in the house and use the code to open your car.

My spare keyfob is now wrapped in aluminium foil which prevents it being locked on and the key I use is in this at night an RFID blocking wallet. Actually as a test I put my mobile in that wallet from amazon and I could not ring it.

The Disklok is the only way to go its fine to use goes on wherever I go,it doesnt scratch my steering wheel but disklok sell a cover for a fiver that goes round it before you put the thing on although I dont bother with that anymore

Edited by smashy on Monday 6th March 15:58

[bad company]

smashy said:

I can tell you exactly whats happening ,they are walking down the street scanning houses their software will lock on to your keyfob in the house and use the code to open your car.

My spare keyfob is now wrapped in aluminium foil which prevents it being locked on and the key I use is in this at night an RFID blocking wallet. Actually as a test I put my mobile in that wallet from amazon and I could not ring it.

The Disklok is the only way to go its fine to use goes on wherever I go,it doesnt scratch my steering wheel but disklok sell a cover for a fiver that goes round it before you put the thing on although I dont bother with that anymore

Edited by smashy on Monday 6th March 15:58

Scarey stuff. Any idea of the range of the scanners? I'm taking delivery of a new 5 so obviously concerned. I generally my car keys on the kitchen table, about 18 feet from the street

[smashy]

Bad company from the research I did ,as mine was being opened every few months as was a few neighbours I cant remember if it was 50 feet or 50 metres. The aluminium foil works perfectly but is a pain to wrap and unwrapp so my spare is packed away in the stuff, the wallet was only £9 and is simple and effective for my Usual Fob

Edited by smashy on Monday 6th March 19:58

[bad company]

smashy said:

Bad company from the research I did ,as mine was being opened every few monyhs as was a few neighbours I cant remember if it was 50 feet or 50 metres. The aluminium foil works perfectly but is a pain to wrap and unwrapp so my spare is packed away in the stuff, the wallet was only £9 and is simple and effective for my Usual Fob

Thanks

[Digitalize]

smashy said:

I can tell you exactly whats happening ,they are walking down the street scanning houses their software will lock on to your keyfob in the house and use the code to open your car.

My spare keyfob is now wrapped in aluminium foil which prevents it being locked on and the key I use is in this at night an RFID blocking wallet. Actually as a test I put my mobile in that wallet from amazon and I could not ring it.

The Disklok is the only way to go its fine to use goes on wherever I go,it doesnt scratch my steering wheel but disklok sell a cover for a fiver that goes round it before you put the thing on although I dont bother with that anymore

Edited by smashy on Monday 6th March 15:58

Do you have ANY links of evidence for this? A key should only broadcast its code when a button is pressed, and not transmit anything when it's doing nothing, otherwise your battery would always be flat.

Most likely thing is someone using a signal jammer so your car isn't actually locking, which is why I've coded the audible beep on lock/unlock on mine just so I know it's worked.

[fredt]

Digitalize said:

smashy said:

I can tell you exactly whats happening ,they are walking down the street scanning houses their software will lock on to your keyfob in the house and use the code to open your car.

My spare keyfob is now wrapped in aluminium foil which prevents it being locked on and the key I use is in this at night an RFID blocking wallet. Actually as a test I put my mobile in that wallet from amazon and I could not ring it.

The Disklok is the only way to go its fine to use goes on wherever I go,it doesnt scratch my steering wheel but disklok sell a cover for a fiver that goes round it before you put the thing on although I dont bother with that anymore

Edited by smashy on Monday 6th March 15:58

Do you have ANY links of evidence for this? A key should only broadcast its code when a button is pressed, and not transmit anything when it's doing nothing, otherwise your battery would always be flat.

Most likely thing is someone using a signal jammer so your car isn't actually locking, which is why I've coded the audible beep on lock/unlock on mine just so I know it's worked.

Not at all. With comfort entry you don't press any button, you just walk up to the car with the key in your pocket and open the door.

[smashy]

Digitalize said:

Do you have ANY links of evidence for this? A key should only broadcast its code when a button is pressed, and not transmit anything when it's doing nothing, otherwise your battery would always be flat.

Most likely thing is someone using a signal jammer so your car isn't actually locking, which is why I've coded the audible beep on lock/unlock on mine just so I know it's worked.

Hello Digitalize plenty of links on google about this.

the jammer is something else and if your being jammed as you try and lock the car I believe it doesnt "click" and you think youve missdone it so you lock it again.

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2909589/micros...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/16/style/keeping-y...

Edited by smashy on Tuesday 7th March 14:44

[Digitalize]

fredt said:

Not at all. With comfort entry you don't press any button, you just walk up to the car with the key in your pocket and open the door.

I did completely forget about comfort/keyless I'll admit, still all seems a bit tinfoil hat to use the pun.

[smashy]

Digitalize said:

I did completely forget about comfort/keyless I'll admit, still all seems a bit tinfoil hat to use the pun.

Mind you thats irrelevant as well ,I press mine as do my neighbours

[msej449]

As you'll see from the parallel X5 thread, the police comment of the latest car theft stats is that really, it doesn't make a lot of difference what additional preventive measures you take. That is, over and above locking the car and keeping the key somewhere away from anyone knocking at the door, meter readers, workmen; not leaving the key in the car when filling-up etc. Increasingly, car thefts are undertaken by organised gangs, stealing to order, and identifying your car well ahead of the actual theft itself. Similarly, an increasing proportion of thefts involve getting hold of the keys that are in the house. The logical end-point of thwarting a theft 'to order' is simply for them to wait until you approach the car and then take electronic action, or just demand the key with menaces. So while you'll obviously want to take reasonable steps, you may not want to make it so hard that they've no other option but to threaten/use violence, given that it's your specific vehicle that's been targeted. My local force are dismissive of disklocks - given that your car will likely be being stolen to order, its no deterrent to professionals targeting premium luxury/performance cars. And from what I've read in the official reports, the comfort thing is a red herring: comfort or manual remote, the odds are pretty similar - ignore the urban myth posts i.e. yes, electronic capture is a problem, and you can put your key in a special bag when stored, but sooner or later, you have to actually get into your car and that's when you're vulnerable.

Edited by msej449 on Tuesday 7th March 15:57

[bad company]

msej449 said:

As you'll see from the parallel X5 thread, the police comment of the latest car theft stats is that really, it doesn't make a lot of difference what additional preventive measures you take. That is, over and above locking the car and keeping the key somewhere away from anyone knocking at the door, meter readers, workmen; not leaving the key in the car when filling-up etc. Increasingly, car thefts are undertaken by organised gangs, stealing to order, and identifying your car well ahead of the actual theft itself. Similarly, an increasing proportion of thefts involve getting hold of the keys that are in the house. The logical end-point of thwarting a theft 'to order' is simply for them to wait until you approach the car and then take electronic action, or just demand the key with menaces. So while you'll obviously want to take reasonable steps, you may not want to make it so hard that they've no other option but to threaten/use violence, given that it's your specific vehicle that's been targeted. My local force are dismissive of disklocks - given that your car will likely be being stolen to order, its no deterrent to professionals targeting premium luxury/performance cars. And from what I've read in the official reports, the comfort thing is a red herring: comfort or manual remote, the odds are pretty similar - ignore the urban myth posts i.e. yes, electronic capture is a problem, and you can put your key in a special bag when stored, but sooner or later, you have to actually get into your car and that's when you're vulnerable.

Edited by msej449 on Tuesday 7th March 15:57

What a depressing thought. My new 540 arrives later this month, will probably just get a tracker fitted.

[fredt]

bad company said:

What a depressing thought. My new 540 arrives later this month, will probably just get a tracker fitted.

Does that make a difference though? I thought they just block that

[anonymous-user]

I don't believe for one minute that car thieves are wandering up the street 'amplifying' the signal with some kind of $17 device.

There would be an epidemic of car thefts by now, rather than the few (relatively speaking) that are stolen currently.

A signal blocker is possible, it's also quite easy to press the unlock button by mistake or to simply walk away without locking the vehicle.

I'd be more worried about the OBD port being easily accessed, get it moved if you're worried about it being stolen.