Relative strength standards
Discussion
I am trying to put together some realistic targets for a man with a full-time (demanding) job and a toddler at home. No steroids. Not much sleep. But I'm still fairly young (33), and I respond well to training and train twice per week (sometimes 3 times).
At the start of the year, I set myself the goal of a double body weight deadlift, which I've achieved faster than expected. I think a double bodyweight squat is also very doable in the next few months.
But what about the following standards that I see sometimes on websites. Anyone used them as goals? How hard were they to meet? Were you able to do it without very specialised training or did you focus on it for some time and do very low rep strength work?
Body weight strict OHP.
Body weight power clean.
2.5 times body weight deadlift & squat.
1.75 times body weight bench press.
I tried last year to get to 20 strict pull ups and never got there because I cannot get the required training volume and frequency for that kind of endurance improvement. But strength seems to be easier to build.
At the start of the year, I set myself the goal of a double body weight deadlift, which I've achieved faster than expected. I think a double bodyweight squat is also very doable in the next few months.
But what about the following standards that I see sometimes on websites. Anyone used them as goals? How hard were they to meet? Were you able to do it without very specialised training or did you focus on it for some time and do very low rep strength work?
Body weight strict OHP.
Body weight power clean.
2.5 times body weight deadlift & squat.
1.75 times body weight bench press.
I tried last year to get to 20 strict pull ups and never got there because I cannot get the required training volume and frequency for that kind of endurance improvement. But strength seems to be easier to build.
When I went back to the gym I used this as a rough guide when setting my goals:
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/Strength...
http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/Strength...
Greg Nuckols has an excellent article on this subject. Using a solid evidence-based approach he outlines some key issues to consider - for example a lifter's height. As he points out
'If two people weigh the same amount and lift the same amount, but one is 160cm tall and the other is 180cm, the taller person is a more skilled lifter.'
It's a little more involved, but plugging in the relevant data and measurements will provide a more accurate assessment of what would be optimal for you given weight, height, maximum muscular potential and so on.
http://www.strongerbyscience.com/objective-strengt...
Luke
'If two people weigh the same amount and lift the same amount, but one is 160cm tall and the other is 180cm, the taller person is a more skilled lifter.'
It's a little more involved, but plugging in the relevant data and measurements will provide a more accurate assessment of what would be optimal for you given weight, height, maximum muscular potential and so on.
http://www.strongerbyscience.com/objective-strengt...
Luke
ORD said:
ERX standards always seem about right to me in that you don't see many guys hitting the 'Advanced' levels, and 'Intermediate' is fairly respectable for most of the lifts.
Those height-adjusted standards are fairly high for normal folk, rather than people with lots of training.
Yes. If you're looking for ballpark figures, unless you're particularly short or lanky, those figures are probably a reasonably close fit. Those height-adjusted standards are fairly high for normal folk, rather than people with lots of training.
However I'd add that by the ExRx standards, I am intermediate, but variously at lower, middle and upper ends of the range in different lifts. By Nuckols' standards, I'm in roughly the same place (needs work) and the same level across the three lifts he has data for. I think his standards are more accurate, bearing out his more evidence-based approach using recent data.
ETA: the maximum muscular potential metric is a really interesting thing to look at, again a quality evidence-based tool. Can help to plot realistic potential levels of fat-free gains over the years.
Edited by MurderousCrow on Monday 6th March 11:16
Taking percentages of records and adjusting them a bit for height and weight probably makes sense. Otherwise, you end up reflecting that people generally are better at some lifts than others simply because they practice them more!
For example, the ERX figures have me as just below advanced for both bench and OHP, despite the fact I am much better at bench than OHP (having practised it far far more). I think any subjective standard assumes fairly little overhead work. Then again, thinking about it, if I had to add 10kg to my bench or 7kg to my OHP, I'm not sure which would be easier, which suggests I am at roughly the same point on each lift (running out of easy strength gains on both).
For example, the ERX figures have me as just below advanced for both bench and OHP, despite the fact I am much better at bench than OHP (having practised it far far more). I think any subjective standard assumes fairly little overhead work. Then again, thinking about it, if I had to add 10kg to my bench or 7kg to my OHP, I'm not sure which would be easier, which suggests I am at roughly the same point on each lift (running out of easy strength gains on both).
I agree.
Nuckols' maximum muscular potential tool also helps to understand and quantify realistic current levels of attainment, and can prevent the (qualitatively very high) standards from seeming demoralising.
If there are significant potential gains to be made in terms of adding muscle, it should be unsurprising that one cannot attain the higher standards in the lifts.
For example, I currently weigh 79kg. My body fat is around 13% (US Navy Calculator). According to Nuckols' FFM predictions, I'm approximately 12kg 'underweight' in terms of lean (muscular) mass. As such, my lifts are reasonably skilled, given my current fat free mass versus my height. As I add more muscle, my lifts will increase accordingly.
Nuckols' maximum muscular potential tool also helps to understand and quantify realistic current levels of attainment, and can prevent the (qualitatively very high) standards from seeming demoralising.
If there are significant potential gains to be made in terms of adding muscle, it should be unsurprising that one cannot attain the higher standards in the lifts.
For example, I currently weigh 79kg. My body fat is around 13% (US Navy Calculator). According to Nuckols' FFM predictions, I'm approximately 12kg 'underweight' in terms of lean (muscular) mass. As such, my lifts are reasonably skilled, given my current fat free mass versus my height. As I add more muscle, my lifts will increase accordingly.
With stuff like this, do you have a spotter, am guessing its a must ?
I am down to 94 kilos and reckon I can lift 100 on a bench press (have done in the past) for a 1 rep maximum as can do say 5 to 10 reps at 80 kilos but get nervous going higher, not that I really need to lift 100 plus kilos but would be nice to try, I go tho the gym with the missus sometimes, she isnt keen on spotting
I am down to 94 kilos and reckon I can lift 100 on a bench press (have done in the past) for a 1 rep maximum as can do say 5 to 10 reps at 80 kilos but get nervous going higher, not that I really need to lift 100 plus kilos but would be nice to try, I go tho the gym with the missus sometimes, she isnt keen on spotting
J4CKO said:
With stuff like this, do you have a spotter, am guessing its a must ?
I am down to 94 kilos and reckon I can lift 100 on a bench press (have done in the past) for a 1 rep maximum as can do say 5 to 10 reps at 80 kilos but get nervous going higher, not that I really need to lift 100 plus kilos but would be nice to try, I go tho the gym with the missus sometimes, she isnt keen on spotting
Safety pins in a power rack is the way to go for safe solo lifting (if it's available). I'm 80kg and my 1RM is 125kg but I wouldn't dare do that on my own unless I knew I could safely fail the lift. Even with a spotter it's not completely safe, unless they want to smash their upright row PB I am down to 94 kilos and reckon I can lift 100 on a bench press (have done in the past) for a 1 rep maximum as can do say 5 to 10 reps at 80 kilos but get nervous going higher, not that I really need to lift 100 plus kilos but would be nice to try, I go tho the gym with the missus sometimes, she isnt keen on spotting
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