PRINCE2 Agile?

[Gerber1]

I am booked onto a PRINCE2 Agile course, my employer is paying for it.

I thought another certification under my belt is no bad thing as I plan to get a new job as soon as possible, but researching the Agile course does not reveal much?

It seems to be very new and there is not much content about its desirability to employers or its usefulness in the work place.

[randlemarcus]

I would say that it is desirable to the most important employer, I.e. your current one, that is paying for it.

Unless this is the only course you get this decade, crack on, learn lots, and apply practically. That's the way to a better CV.

[Gerber1]

No its not so desirable to my current employer, they've just booked me on it well...because...

Still I do like PRINCE2 so I'm enthusiastic to complete AGILE but as said there is not much out there about its desirability on CVs.

[randlemarcus]

In that case, does your employer claw back course fees if you leave. If so, and you are intending to leave, cancel it. If not, or you are intending to stay, crack on. Personally, I'm struggling to see how "line all ducks up and document" aligns with "iterative fast moving sprints" but open to persuasion.

[Gerber1]

No, I have no such clause in my contract.

My employer doesn't subscribe to any methodology and certainly not PRINCE2 so I have no idea why they have volunteered for me to complete the course, the only thing I can think of is as an excuse for no pay rise this year "but we sent you on training".

Eitherway I'll be applying for jobs as soon as I pass!

[worsy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Amen

I have Prince2, but I also have APMG AgilePM too. Try applying Prince2 to a cloud based deployment of a COTS package where the client requirements evolve as they gather knowledge and all hell breaks loose.

[johnfm]

In reality, how useful can any "qualification" be if you can get it on a one week course? You can probably get the same benefit from reading a book about it over a couple of weeks.

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Amen x 2.

Prince2 used to be a door opener when applying for PM roles it isn't anymore and I haven't updated mine in years as it has little value. Its just a little money making club for TSO and the training provider mafia.

Not sure if its still the case but it used to be all about Chapter 19 in the manual, its not a difficult exam to pass.

[JFReturns]

I've just accepted a junior PM role where PRINCE2 was a prerequisite

[Actual]

Our PM did a PRINCE course and now we do PINO (Prince In Name Only)

[anonymous-user]

Prince2:

An expensive course teaching a methodology that means you never deliver anything on time.

Agile:

A development methodology guaranteed to build unmaintainable, undocumented solutions rapidly.

Prince2 Agile:

A methodology guaranteed to fail to deliver unmaintainable, undocumented solutions.

[Gerber1]

Those are some bold statements, and there was me thinking a PRINCE2 certification would see me well into a new job!

Oh well, it's often a prerequisite so a recruiter should appreciate it...

[anonymous-user]

prince 2 is useful in giving you an overview of things to do when project managing a large piece of work.

however if you actually follow it, you'll never deliver anything but documentation on why you couldnt deliver because you were too busy producing the documentation

[Gerber1]

So I have been preparing for this AGILE course, and Jesus Christ what a load of st this is!

Honestly, if I was paying for this course myself I would feel mugged off.

So on my CV I think I am just going to leave it as "Registered PRINCE2 practitioner" rather than taint it with AGILE.

[slow_poke]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If your organization is big enough, it's going to be process oriented rather than results oriented. And if you've followed the process, and can demonstrated by documentation that you've followed every step of the process, then you're bulletproof. Nobody will criticize you because to do so is to criticize the process, and the process is infallible. To criticize the process is to commit career suicide, because so many other careers were built on it or are depending on it.

[otolith]

Prince 2 was a week of my life I'll never get back.

Still, if one wishes to deliver successful IT projects, looking to emulate the practices of the British public sector is definitely the way to go

[anonymous-user]

I passed my Prince 2 practitioner exam with a migraine looking out of one eye as that's all I could use.

At that point I realised how worthless it was.

The 15 years since havent changed my opinion.

[Flooble]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, this every day of the week. But worse, in that talentless fools will obtain the certification and then use "Best Practice says ..." to dictate to those who are trying to deliver (and probably have more skills, knowledge and experience than the "certified" practitioner).

So many projects get hung up because "document XYZ has not been approved and reviewed by all relevant stakeholders on the RACI matrix". Build a bureaucracy and people will find ways to hide in it. It's never the process, always the dumb schmuck trying to get something done.

As I've mentioned before, the irony is that PRINCE2 has right up front "Tailor this process to suit". Yet companies still insist on having 26 different management documents for a 3-week "project" in addition to the actual deliverable; that is not tailoring to suit ... unless you mean "to suit people who don't want to do any work but can hide behind process".

Add in a dollop of large management consultancies who convince the board that following "XYZ process" will guarantee increased profits - provided you pay them to train up all the staff and oversee the projects - and you can start to understand the cynicism. I'm old enough to know exactly where in the management consultancy "cycle" any given firm is. I walk in and can see if they are at the "We need to implement CMMI Level 5/ITIL Everything/MSP Waterfall documents and centralised process rule" stage, the "Waterfall is too much overhead, we need to go for Agile Six Sigma Kaizen Kanban Lean Quality Distributed Ownership" stage or back to the "Distributed is too uncontrolled, we need to centralise" stage again.

Pretty sure the Management Consultancies work together to pass large corporates back and forth, implementing the reverse of the previous consultancy's suggestions.