E46 M3 values- how mileage sensitive?
Discussion
Hi all,
I am looking at purchasing an e46 M3 manual coupe in the coming months.
Keeping my eye on used examples I am struggling to work out the going rate?
There are the obvious low mileage examples at dealers for ~£20k but I am looking at the 10-12k mark really. Looking around it would appear that some cars are 6-7k and from the adverts don't seem a million miles away from a £10k example. What should I expect for my money?
I was also stung when trying to sell a 140k Z4 3.0si, people didn't seem interested due to the mileage (was the cheapest online)... would this be the case for an E46?
Thanks in advance.
I am looking at purchasing an e46 M3 manual coupe in the coming months.
Keeping my eye on used examples I am struggling to work out the going rate?
There are the obvious low mileage examples at dealers for ~£20k but I am looking at the 10-12k mark really. Looking around it would appear that some cars are 6-7k and from the adverts don't seem a million miles away from a £10k example. What should I expect for my money?
I was also stung when trying to sell a 140k Z4 3.0si, people didn't seem interested due to the mileage (was the cheapest online)... would this be the case for an E46?
Thanks in advance.
Have you tried the m3cutters.co.uk site, they often have several for sale and assuming sellers are forum members you can check back at posts looking at the story of the car, in their ownership at least.
I dealt (then pulled out) on one a year ago for 16k at a main dealers.
It lacked the RIS and yet it still sold around 12k from an 'ordinary dealers.'
Thus a year on, with prices rising, I can't see anything south of 10k is not going have shortcomings in , for example, miles, condition, service history, reasonable no. of owners and not be chavved up.
Other than dealing well privately, from an enthusiast - hence my first line - I think the higher end of your budget is going to be worth spending to get a good enough blend of the above variables.
I note a main dealer is selling one at 104k and backed by warranty, so they have faith or brass neck
but I assume that car ticks every other box with aplomb and warranties, for the public, are about 4k so there's some clawed back value in the 16k!! price tag I suppose.
I dealt (then pulled out) on one a year ago for 16k at a main dealers.
It lacked the RIS and yet it still sold around 12k from an 'ordinary dealers.'
Thus a year on, with prices rising, I can't see anything south of 10k is not going have shortcomings in , for example, miles, condition, service history, reasonable no. of owners and not be chavved up.
Other than dealing well privately, from an enthusiast - hence my first line - I think the higher end of your budget is going to be worth spending to get a good enough blend of the above variables.
I note a main dealer is selling one at 104k and backed by warranty, so they have faith or brass neck
but I assume that car ticks every other box with aplomb and warranties, for the public, are about 4k so there's some clawed back value in the 16k!! price tag I suppose.Interesting thread OP.
I've been keeping an eye on the market for the past 6 months with a view to shifting mine as soon as I can find something that's as much fun to drive (I'm struggling)
The cheaper end of the market seems to be anything that's been modified and lacks concrete history.
The upper end of the market seems reserved for ultra-low mileage examples with black nappa leather and a manual box (coupe's).
This leaves everything else in between- people seem to make up their price according to their own thoughts rather than adhering to the general consensus.
For 10k, I would expect bloody good service history, subframe done, good tyres etc all round.
For 12k, I would want cast iron service history, boot floor done, HG tested, good tyres and something a little bit unusual. Mileage wouldn't bother me as much at this price point as it would on an £8k example.
We all know these will run forever IF they've been looked after. Get on cutters, do your research and get one bought.
I've been keeping an eye on the market for the past 6 months with a view to shifting mine as soon as I can find something that's as much fun to drive (I'm struggling)
The cheaper end of the market seems to be anything that's been modified and lacks concrete history.
The upper end of the market seems reserved for ultra-low mileage examples with black nappa leather and a manual box (coupe's).
This leaves everything else in between- people seem to make up their price according to their own thoughts rather than adhering to the general consensus.
For 10k, I would expect bloody good service history, subframe done, good tyres etc all round.
For 12k, I would want cast iron service history, boot floor done, HG tested, good tyres and something a little bit unusual. Mileage wouldn't bother me as much at this price point as it would on an £8k example.
We all know these will run forever IF they've been looked after. Get on cutters, do your research and get one bought.
IMHO it depends. On a car of this age the mileage won't make a difference in most cases. How it has been treated and who has owned it will. It's a legacy thing at this age.
If you are a collector and plan not to use the car, then yes it will matter.
If it's a car to be used it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
The above sound ludicrous? I spent far less on a 944 Turbo with 190k over my S2 with 115k. It also drove far better. But there was a gulf between the owners. The Turbo had been once owned by ProMax Motorsport who as far as I can tell drove the car pretty much everywhere but also fixed and maintained everything on it. I drove a few 944s at the time (including a 34k S2 Cab) and that old smoker was still very tight, something other people commented on.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Finding the right car these days is hard.
FWIW I was hoping last year to get an M3 with higher miles for £8k in good condition. I feel flat on my face amongst the first three cars I saw. IMHO to get a car that is not a moneypit and a "cheap" M3 you are looking at £11k+. There are bargains to be had but you have to go in with your eyes wide open.
I had a post somewhere on my experience of finding an M3. I'll see if I can dig it up. It will put some perspective on the cheaper cars.
Hopefully, the below won't put you off too much:
http://www.pistonheads.com/members/showcar.asp?car...
That said, my 944 Turbo was a harder car to sell. I still managed to get a half decent price for it (£6.5k back in 2014 ; I know what the values are like now!). My S2 flew out of the door but IMHO it would have cost me more to run if I kept it ; it still wanted new suspension, new rear tyres, preferably the calipers refurbishing etc. It all adds up now matter how you look at it.
If you are a collector and plan not to use the car, then yes it will matter.
If it's a car to be used it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
The above sound ludicrous? I spent far less on a 944 Turbo with 190k over my S2 with 115k. It also drove far better. But there was a gulf between the owners. The Turbo had been once owned by ProMax Motorsport who as far as I can tell drove the car pretty much everywhere but also fixed and maintained everything on it. I drove a few 944s at the time (including a 34k S2 Cab) and that old smoker was still very tight, something other people commented on.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Finding the right car these days is hard.
FWIW I was hoping last year to get an M3 with higher miles for £8k in good condition. I feel flat on my face amongst the first three cars I saw. IMHO to get a car that is not a moneypit and a "cheap" M3 you are looking at £11k+. There are bargains to be had but you have to go in with your eyes wide open.
I had a post somewhere on my experience of finding an M3. I'll see if I can dig it up. It will put some perspective on the cheaper cars.
Hopefully, the below won't put you off too much:
http://www.pistonheads.com/members/showcar.asp?car...
That said, my 944 Turbo was a harder car to sell. I still managed to get a half decent price for it (£6.5k back in 2014 ; I know what the values are like now!). My S2 flew out of the door but IMHO it would have cost me more to run if I kept it ; it still wanted new suspension, new rear tyres, preferably the calipers refurbishing etc. It all adds up now matter how you look at it.
Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 9th March 09:22
They seem to be very mileage sensitive. I've seen some lovely low milers up for £25k or thereabouts recently. Obviously they are only worth what someone is willing to pay.
Mine is on 144000, with fairly desireable spec (black with red leather/manual, coupe), but I wouldn't expect to get any more than £6k for it.
Mine is on 144000, with fairly desireable spec (black with red leather/manual, coupe), but I wouldn't expect to get any more than £6k for it.
Baz Tench said:
They seem to be very mileage sensitive. I've seen some lovely low milers up for £25k or thereabouts recently. Obviously they are only worth what someone is willing to pay.
Mine is on 144000, with fairly desireable spec (black with red leather/manual, coupe), but I wouldn't expect to get any more than £6k for it.
if it's in great nick You have yourself a deal! And I am serious.Mine is on 144000, with fairly desireable spec (black with red leather/manual, coupe), but I wouldn't expect to get any more than £6k for it.
Edited by SebringMan on Saturday 11th March 19:48
Smuler said:
I note a main dealer is selling one at 104k and backed by warranty, so they have faith or brass neck but I assume that car ticks every other box with aplomb and warranties, for the public, are about 4k so there's some clawed back value in the 16k!! price tag I suppose.
An extra £500 gets you 30k fewer miles and a bonus subtly two tone finish... but I assume that car ticks every other box with aplomb and warranties, for the public, are about 4k so there's some clawed back value in the 16k!! price tag I suppose.http://usedcars.sytnersolihullbmw.co.uk/showroom/M...
HerrSchnell said:
An extra £500 gets you 30k fewer miles and a bonus subtly two tone finish...
http://usedcars.sytnersolihullbmw.co.uk/showroom/M...
They've both dropped actually. That one was 17khttp://usedcars.sytnersolihullbmw.co.uk/showroom/M...
Up from 15,850£ back in June 2014 @ 59k miles.
SJ Have this one:
http://www.sjspecialistcars.co.uk/2003-bmw-m3-conv...
They did have a very nice, rare laguna seca blue, SMG, coupe, 36K miles, up at £19999- it didn't even last 2 weeks before sold.
I think it depends on the colour combo, and condition, to some buyers mileage seems top of the wish list but does not guarantee a car to be well looked after.
http://www.sjspecialistcars.co.uk/2003-bmw-m3-conv...
They did have a very nice, rare laguna seca blue, SMG, coupe, 36K miles, up at £19999- it didn't even last 2 weeks before sold.
I think it depends on the colour combo, and condition, to some buyers mileage seems top of the wish list but does not guarantee a car to be well looked after.
HerrSchnell said:
An extra £500 gets you 30k fewer miles and a bonus subtly two tone finish...
http://usedcars.sytnersolihullbmw.co.uk/showroom/M...
Thats not a massively inspiring colour combo - grey leather is the least sought after....http://usedcars.sytnersolihullbmw.co.uk/showroom/M...
I know its each to their own, but we have a sea of Black, silver white cars in the world these days.... especially bmw audi's etc
I think this is why when a Seca blue or imola red car comes up they sell relatively quick.
On the other hand a silver car, with grey is a nice safe resale which could be why sytner didn't mind having a go at retailing it, that and it must be sound mechanically for them to offer a AUC warranty...
TBH I'll say it again. I reckon that this age mileage is irrelevant unless you are after a top end value when you come to sell it ; that's not to say it may cost you a bit to get it to a nice driving standard. Condition counts for more IMHO on another after 10+ years old, especially if you plan to use the car.
But despite me not minding the grey leather the silver/grey combo isn't a favouite! But a 12 month BMW warranty would tempt me. Alot! It's at least a little more cast iron than what others can offer and I speak on behalf of a friend there ; I can't think of many "traders" that would replace a thermostat, radiator and water pump due to a leak in the radiator.
That FWIW was on a 2009 49k E89 Z4 30 SDrive manual.
But despite me not minding the grey leather the silver/grey combo isn't a favouite! But a 12 month BMW warranty would tempt me. Alot! It's at least a little more cast iron than what others can offer and I speak on behalf of a friend there ; I can't think of many "traders" that would replace a thermostat, radiator and water pump due to a leak in the radiator.
That FWIW was on a 2009 49k E89 Z4 30 SDrive manual.
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 13th March 21:17
andyman_2006 said:
Thats not a massively inspiring colour combo - grey leather is the least sought after....
I know its each to their own, but we have a sea of Black, silver white cars in the world these days.... especially bmw audi's etc
I think this is why when a Seca blue or imola red car comes up they sell relatively quick.
On the other hand a silver car, with grey is a nice safe resale which could be why sytner didn't mind having a go at retailing it, that and it must be sound mechanically for them to offer a AUC warranty...
I was there today and had a nose around it, couldn't find any signs of rot so they've either repaired it and charged back to BMW UK as warranty work or they've found the unicorn of a rust free e46.I know its each to their own, but we have a sea of Black, silver white cars in the world these days.... especially bmw audi's etc
I think this is why when a Seca blue or imola red car comes up they sell relatively quick.
On the other hand a silver car, with grey is a nice safe resale which could be why sytner didn't mind having a go at retailing it, that and it must be sound mechanically for them to offer a AUC warranty...
I'd guess they gave around £6k for it as a p/x so they've got a lot of head room should there be HGF or Vanos issues.
SebringMan said:
TBH I'll say it again. I reckon that this age mileage is irrelevant unless you are after a top end value when you come to sell it ; that's not to say it may cost you a bit to get it to a nice driving standard. Condition counts for more IMHO on another after 10+ years old, especially if you plan to use the car.
But despite me not minding the grey leather the silver/grey combo isn't a favouite! But a 12 month BMW warranty would tempt me. Alot! It's at least a little more cast iron than what others can offer and I speak on behalf of a friend there ; I can't think of many "traders" that would replace a thermostat, radiator and water pump due to a leak in the radiator.
That FWIW was on a 2009 49k E89 Z4 30 SDrive manual.
Tend to agree with this pov, covers plenty of new upcoming classics not only BMW. My recent purchase e46 m3 has the But despite me not minding the grey leather the silver/grey combo isn't a favouite! But a 12 month BMW warranty would tempt me. Alot! It's at least a little more cast iron than what others can offer and I speak on behalf of a friend there ; I can't think of many "traders" that would replace a thermostat, radiator and water pump due to a leak in the radiator.
That FWIW was on a 2009 49k E89 Z4 30 SDrive manual.
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 13th March 21:17
'so called' dreaded grey interior leather, in my eyes it's perfect with the dark blue exterior and suits an old fart like me. I did consider the yellow on yellow but thought after a couple of days it would give me a headache
2003 with 103,000 miles up. I must have put on about 400 miles since purchase last October!!!
HerrSchnell said:
Still a considerable gain from when I bought my one previous owner car with less mileage and six inches of main dealer servicing/tyres/alignment receipts for £8900 in 2013.
Well i think as the supply of nice, low mile, good condition cars starts to thin out, i can only see the values firming up further.I mean we are in the days of the £16K R5GT turbo, so these cars have a long way to go before hitting their potential i think.
Wont expect to see the same values as E30's but still a £10-15K M3 is a bit of a bargain in the world of modern classics i think.
Andy
SebringMan said:
Baz Tench said:
They seem to be very mileage sensitive. I've seen some lovely low milers up for £25k or thereabouts recently. Obviously they are only worth what someone is willing to pay.
Mine is on 144000, with fairly desireable spec (black with red leather/manual, coupe), but I wouldn't expect to get any more than £6k for it.
if it's in great nick You have yourself a deal! And I am serious.Mine is on 144000, with fairly desireable spec (black with red leather/manual, coupe), but I wouldn't expect to get any more than £6k for it.
Edited by SebringMan on Saturday 11th March 19:48
I intentionally bought a higher mileage e46, with the (risky) logic that if it had had any issues in the past, they may have all been rectified and it would have a whole new lease of life. It's not perfect by any means, but it is what I would call an 'honest' car.
Going back to that logic above, it has had about £1200 spent on it in total in the last 5 years outside of normal servicing. Some common issues have arisen (viscous fan seizing, leaking diff, FSR (hedgehog) killing the battery, coil pack).
Other than that, no problems.
Bought on 126000 miles btw.
Baz Tench said:
Well, after 5 years in my ownership, I'm toying with the idea of replacing it with an e92 M3, but I'm not sure I can justify the difference in values between the two.
I intentionally bought a higher mileage e46, with the (risky) logic that if it had had any issues in the past, they may have all been rectified and it would have a whole new lease of life. It's not perfect by any means, but it is what I would call an 'honest' car.
Going back to that logic above, it has had about £1200 spent on it in total in the last 5 years outside of normal servicing. Some common issues have arisen (viscous fan seizing, leaking diff, FSR (hedgehog) killing the battery, coil pack).
Other than that, no problems.
Bought on 126000 miles btw.
I guess if you take my usual spend and that paint job (I factored this into the buying price) I haven't spend too much on repairs.i bought with a similar logic and that it's my daily; the mileage will go up.I intentionally bought a higher mileage e46, with the (risky) logic that if it had had any issues in the past, they may have all been rectified and it would have a whole new lease of life. It's not perfect by any means, but it is what I would call an 'honest' car.
Going back to that logic above, it has had about £1200 spent on it in total in the last 5 years outside of normal servicing. Some common issues have arisen (viscous fan seizing, leaking diff, FSR (hedgehog) killing the battery, coil pack).
Other than that, no problems.
Bought on 126000 miles btw.
I was being semi serious on that comment. I really need to get my blog finished. When I was looking I could not find anything worth buying below £10k that would not be a moneypit of ruin. All were cars the owners had enough of.
A friend of mine was debating buying either an E92 or E46. He saw one to the standard he wanted but the owner would not go below £16k. The other car in his words was a wreck.
I am sure there are diamonds out there but they are few and far between from what I have seen (I dismissed 3 cars on investigation on the screen and three in the flesh.
Edited by SebringMan on Tuesday 14th March 22:38
I'd have to agree with SM too.
Mine is going to be my daily when I've finished fannying around with my 'snagging list', but I bought right at the bottom of the market, albeit a car that the previous owner had spent £3k on in mechanical works over the previous 18 months, but had bodywork issues (front wing rust) along with wheels that resembled the moon surface & numerous niggly little issues.
Mileage is 111k & now that all 4 wheels are pointing on the right directions, it drives really well. Just need to resist my usual tendency to try & make it as new!
Have seen similar mileage cars to mine, arguably far less 'honest' cars, that are going for at least £2k more than I paid, all with their own issues.
My logic was to buy a sound & honest car, that wore it's heart on its sleeve that I could improve but equally not too immaculate that it was too nice to use everyday, if that makes any sense at all?
Mine is going to be my daily when I've finished fannying around with my 'snagging list', but I bought right at the bottom of the market, albeit a car that the previous owner had spent £3k on in mechanical works over the previous 18 months, but had bodywork issues (front wing rust) along with wheels that resembled the moon surface & numerous niggly little issues.
Mileage is 111k & now that all 4 wheels are pointing on the right directions, it drives really well. Just need to resist my usual tendency to try & make it as new!
Have seen similar mileage cars to mine, arguably far less 'honest' cars, that are going for at least £2k more than I paid, all with their own issues.
My logic was to buy a sound & honest car, that wore it's heart on its sleeve that I could improve but equally not too immaculate that it was too nice to use everyday, if that makes any sense at all?
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