997.2 Carrera/S destined for classic status??
Discussion
My thoughts on this are that due to the state of the international economy fewer of these were made. These are the last of the hydraulic steering and smaller body shell modern 991s. The Carrera and Carrera S make really good power and the engine is known to be reliable without any major risks of good ng bang. Manuals must be super rare because the PDK is pretty good and must have tempted many away, considering what an improvement it was over the tiptronic.
Excluding the obvious specials (GT cars mainly) looking back every variant of the 911 with the exception of the 996 maybe has become super desireable eventually. The 997.2 is a particular sweet spot not built in vast numbers but still plentiful, reliable and in some ways unique due to size and steering compared to what has come afterwards. Things like steering will become less important as electric steering gets better and better, however there is a raw feel to these cats that will not be repeated as technology and refinement continues to lead the conversation with newer 911s. So I think they will plateau sometime soon and become a modern classic that holds its value.
Not sure to be honest, and I own a manual 997.2 GTS. As far as GTS's go less than 100 manual UK cars with about 300 PDK's. I've long held the belief that manual versions of older cars will do better purely because one of the things that dates quickest is whatever form of automatic/dsg/tiptronic/pdk gearbox a car has. Someone posted in another thread recently about the PDK in the 997 not being great having previously driven a 991 PDK. Most people that own 997 PDK's absolutely love them though ,
Back to your question though. Is the 997.2 future classic ? Maybe. I don't think you can really understand where these cars will sit long term on the 911 ladder until they're at least two generations away from being the current production car and see better where it fits in the evolution and have better perspective.
Hartech recently posted a thread on here about potential issues with 997.2 engines...early days but they think there is a possibility of a problem.
Back to your question though. Is the 997.2 future classic ? Maybe. I don't think you can really understand where these cars will sit long term on the 911 ladder until they're at least two generations away from being the current production car and see better where it fits in the evolution and have better perspective.
Hartech recently posted a thread on here about potential issues with 997.2 engines...early days but they think there is a possibility of a problem.
IMI A said:
Same for 996 but I struggle with looks other than early versions which are pretty cars. In 20 yrs sure fire classics.
Saw a picture of an Arctic 996 earlier on OEM 18" split rims & despite owning one it still surprised me how good it looked, pretty like you said, lovely proportions too, slim & elegant compared to the larger newer models.I suspect the lights will always divide opinion but if people converted them to 997 front end that would be even worse in many peoples books!
Eventually they might be some kind of classic. Not any time soon though. Depreciation is not too bad and has been pretty good for at least the last four years.
991 doesn't seem to have much impact on 997.2 pricing and 991.2 is something quite different. Not sure what I'd replace a 997.2 with.
991 doesn't seem to have much impact on 997.2 pricing and 991.2 is something quite different. Not sure what I'd replace a 997.2 with.
The original question was whether they were destined as opposed to already there so no surprise that they are still depreciating (possible exception being the GTS, but I would say that). I think looking forward they will bottom out at say £25k if averaging 3-5k miles per year (which is where a lot of pork sits mileage wise) and then start to climb maybe?
I'd say no chance. Even the GTS - which was apparently the pick of the non GT/turbo range - wasn't anything particularly special.
The 993 is probably just about a classic already. The previously unloved 964 has moved across to classic status. The 996 might just, in time, become a classic in the same way the 964 did (eventually), but the 997 was produced in such numbers that I can't see it becoming a classic in the normal sense of the word.
The 993 is probably just about a classic already. The previously unloved 964 has moved across to classic status. The 996 might just, in time, become a classic in the same way the 964 did (eventually), but the 997 was produced in such numbers that I can't see it becoming a classic in the normal sense of the word.
monthefish said:
I'd say no chance. Even the GTS - which was apparently the pick of the non GT/turbo range - wasn't anything particularly special.
The 993 is probably just about a classic already. The previously unloved 964 has moved across to classic status. The 996 might just, in time, become a classic in the same way the 964 did (eventually), but the 997 was produced in such numbers that I can't see it becoming a classic in the normal sense of the word.
I'd agree with this air cooled the only real classics but in 20 years who knows they may be more than just kettlesThe 993 is probably just about a classic already. The previously unloved 964 has moved across to classic status. The 996 might just, in time, become a classic in the same way the 964 did (eventually), but the 997 was produced in such numbers that I can't see it becoming a classic in the normal sense of the word.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I do not really keep an eye on OPC prices but 911 Virgin, RSJ , Portiacraft, Cridfords etc have all been selling lovely 30-40k miles 997.2 C2 manual for circa £35k for a few years now. Maybe a few of the cars I saw on their websites were gen 1s who knows as i never take a close look? IMI A said:
You old tart 
Ha!...but dammit you're right!Early days for me 911 ownership wise - had various TVR's for about 15 years and thought I'd tick the rear engined thing off the list - enjoying it so far.
Not too concerned about classic status or making money as such but I guess low depreciation is nice if that's what happens
Onetrackmind said:
Does anyone have any idea of the number of coupe 997.2 built vs 997.1 and 991? Did the economic downturn affect sales?
See number of new 911 registrations per year in the link below. Note the significant dip during the gen 2 / great recession years (2008-2011).https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/family/porsche_911#!...
IMI A said:
It depends on buying at the right price. If your friend managed to buy a manual low miles low spec 3.6 gen 2 for circa £35k and done say no more 3000 miles per annum I personally think he'd have stayed neutral other than servicing, insurance and routine consumables. They've been around this level for quite some time. This is what I'd buy with £35k to spend. A main dealer recently sold a red 35k mile 3.6 gen 2 which looked completely stunning for £35k ish. I'd actively pick a 3.6 over a 3.8 997 preferably with no PASM and sports suspension - the engine is an absolute peach and they're more than quick enough out of the box.
The resident dragon bought this beautiful 997 gen 2 C4S Cab PDK from 911 Virgin (thanks once again Tom
) Its a very low miles original panel car. I expect she'll use it for nice Sunny days all year round covering say 3000 miles per annum. She paid the right money for her without knocking anything off 911 Virgins asking price - I'd be surprised if she loses anything meaningful IMO but cannot see her selling it anytime soon - she absolutely loves the car as do our four kids who always fight about who's going out with her! And its the complete opposite of what I think will hold or even slightly appreciate i.e. manual, rwd, coupe with low miles.
Electric steering is average and the 991 is perhaps a bit too big for a 911 in many enthusiast's books. This should in theory at least keep the enthusiasts choice i.e. manual 997 and 987, 996 coupes with low miles static or creeping up in value. Of course if you go and put 80,000 miles on them like I have then they're worth about 10 pence. Heres to the next 80,000 miles
PS off topic I know of a 40,000 mile 996 C2 with aerokit sell for approaching £28,000. An aerokit 996 tiptronic with ruffled leather with only 30,000 miles and one owner made £20,000 at auction a few months ago much to my amazement - it had a gemballa spoiler on it lol!
Can't believe no one has commented on the best 997 turbo pic ever. That's how to do it an well done you The resident dragon bought this beautiful 997 gen 2 C4S Cab PDK from 911 Virgin (thanks once again Tom
) Its a very low miles original panel car. I expect she'll use it for nice Sunny days all year round covering say 3000 miles per annum. She paid the right money for her without knocking anything off 911 Virgins asking price - I'd be surprised if she loses anything meaningful IMO but cannot see her selling it anytime soon - she absolutely loves the car as do our four kids who always fight about who's going out with her! And its the complete opposite of what I think will hold or even slightly appreciate i.e. manual, rwd, coupe with low miles.Electric steering is average and the 991 is perhaps a bit too big for a 911 in many enthusiast's books. This should in theory at least keep the enthusiasts choice i.e. manual 997 and 987, 996 coupes with low miles static or creeping up in value. Of course if you go and put 80,000 miles on them like I have then they're worth about 10 pence. Heres to the next 80,000 miles
PS off topic I know of a 40,000 mile 996 C2 with aerokit sell for approaching £28,000. An aerokit 996 tiptronic with ruffled leather with only 30,000 miles and one owner made £20,000 at auction a few months ago much to my amazement - it had a gemballa spoiler on it lol!
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