MORE & MORE & MORE NEW MODELS

[Jon39]

Considering the pretax losses have steadily been increasing since 2010 (£31.7 million profit), the ambitious new model plan seems remarkable.

I might have been slow to read this, but Max Szwaj has recently joined AML from Ferrari, as Chief Technical Officer. He will head the development of a new mid-engined V12 supercar to launch in 2021, described as a rival to the Ferrari 488.

We are told that developing a new car, now costs an enormous amount of money, so how is all this possible?

What do you think about there being so many promised new models?

2016 - DB 11
2017 - Vantage
2018 - Vanquish
2019 - Valkyrie
2019 - DBX
2020 - Lagonda saloon
2021 - Mid-engined V12 Supercar
2022 - Lagonda SUV

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-gene...

Edited by Jon39 on Friday 10th March 13:12

[HBradley]

By 2021 won't it be competing with the Ferrari 999 which will be able to fly?!

[Ex Boy Racer]

Yes. I'm starting to get memories of Danny Bahar with Aston Martin.

[Phil74891]

Dear Andy,

2016 - DB 11 - pretty good effort, but not my thing
2017 - Vantage - won't be swapping my 2014 V12VS for one I'm afraid
2018 - Vanquish - will keep the V12VS and will add a DBS
2019 - Valkyrie - I've seen the film
2019 - DBX - I'd seriously rather have one of those new mid size Range Rover things
2020 - Lagonda saloon - I don't have enough oil wells or wives
2021 - Mid-engined V12 Supercar - YES PLEASE
2022 - Lagonda SUV - I'd seriously rather have one of those slightly bigger new Range Rover things

Best of luck, and see you in 2021. Unless I buy a 720S first. So pull your socks up mate and get moving.

Kind regards

Phil

Edited by Phil74891 on Friday 10th March 13:17

[avinalarf]

Phil74891 said:

Dear Andy,

2016 - DB 11 - pretty good effort, but not my thing
2017 - Vantage - won't be swapping my 2014 V12VS for one I'm afraid
2018 - Vanquish - will keep the V12VS and will add a DBS
2019 - Valkyrie - I've seen the film
2019 - DBX - I'd seriously rather have one of those new mid size Range Rover things
2020 - Lagonda saloon - I don't have enough oil wells or wives
2021 - Mid-engined V12 Supercar - YES PLEASE
2022 - Lagonda SUV - I'd seriously rather have one of those slightly bigger new Range Rover things

Best of luck, and see you in 2021. Unless I buy a 720S first. So pull your socks up mate and get moving.

Kind regards

Phil

Edited by Phil74891 on Friday 10th March 13:17

Ho ,Ho ,Ho....Pretty much nailed it......albeit a tad harsh.
I'd like to know the development costs of all these new models and how many they need to sell to make a profit.

[RobDown]

It's some peculiar British disease this "tall poppy syndrome" where people feel the need to constantly denigrate rather than celebrate. I know AML have had more than their fair share of issues over the decades, but maybe we should just stop and actually applaud them when things finally start to head in the right direction rather than clutch on to negatives

So while I'm here and to provide some balance to the "we're doomed" brigade

16Q4 sales up 48% year on year
January 2017 UK sales up 174%
EBITDA in 2016 +41% and expected to rise 60-65% in 2017
GBP200m invested in new Welsh production facility
Probably the most exciting new product pipeline the firm has ever seen (and yes I'm not going to buy most of them, but that's not the point is it? The company aren't relying on me to buy 6 cars from them)
A sold out Hypercar programme that will no doubt generate cash to be invested back in mainstream models

Happy Friday

[Jon39]

Thank you Rob for your balance.

I am not a 'glass half empty' person, and certainly have no wish to see AML have a repeat of their previous business history.

I don't know how much it costs to design and develop a new car, but we are repeatedly told that it is now a huge sum. With that in mind, I simply started this topic, to see if our knowledgeable contributors had any comments, about there being so many new models being developed.

[avinalarf]

RobDown said:

It's some peculiar British disease this "tall poppy syndrome" where people feel the need to constantly denigrate rather than celebrate. I know AML have had more than their fair share of issues over the decades, but maybe we should just stop and actually applaud them when things finally start to head in the right direction rather than clutch on to negatives

So while I'm here and to provide some balance to the "we're doomed" brigade

16Q4 sales up 48% year on year
January 2017 UK sales up 174%
EBITDA in 2016 +41% and expected to rise 60-65% in 2017
GBP200m invested in new Welsh production facility
Probably the most exciting new product pipeline the firm has ever seen (and yes I'm not going to buy most of them, but that's not the point is it? The company aren't relying on me to buy 6 cars from them)
A sold out Hypercar programme that will no doubt generate cash to be invested back in mainstream models

Happy Friday

No Tall Poppies intended from me Rob.
I've just had a look at the Porsche range on their website.
Now they have a lovely range of cars 2/4 door and SUV's etc, prices range roughly £40K to £120K ,there's something for anybody that likes the brand.
You often find Porsche owners on this AM forum thinking about joining the brand.
So what I'm thinking is why are AM not concentrating offering their long suffering devotees a similar choice at
similar prices ?
Why compete with say Bentley on a SUV for £250K+ and spend time and money on ultra expensive Hypercars ?
OK ,So you tell me the hypercars make the company money and I can't argue with that but there seems to be a lot of fluff amd to a certain extent a loss of focus on the main product range i.e. a really exciting 2 door sports car ( new Vantage ).
The DB11 has received mixed receptions,it's not that it's a bad car ,just not a game changer,so I'm wondering if the new Vantage isn't going to be going down that road.

[woodsypedia]

It's worth remembering that the development cycles of new cars are incredibly long - often 4-6 years. Sadly, the costs you incur are present day - which means this whopping great big loss they're currently at is likely a result of the research / tooling / development / testing / marketing / certification of a few of those models on the list. I suspect the balance sheet will look better when they're able to start recuperating loses against those models at the time they go on sale.

I'm aligned -many of those aren't for me, but one could argue there's a huge untapped market out there - and I hope they continue to attract buys that spend money.

Time will tell, but I recall the same discussion over the Bentley Betayga. Maybe the production DBX will look better than the renderings.

Chris.

[HBradley]

RobDown said:

It's some peculiar British disease this "tall poppy syndrome" where people feel the need to constantly denigrate rather than celebrate. I know AML have had more than their fair share of issues over the decades, but maybe we should just stop and actually applaud them when things finally start to head in the right direction rather than clutch on to negatives

So while I'm here and to provide some balance to the "we're doomed" brigade

16Q4 sales up 48% year on year
January 2017 UK sales up 174%
EBITDA in 2016 +41% and expected to rise 60-65% in 2017
GBP200m invested in new Welsh production facility
Probably the most exciting new product pipeline the firm has ever seen (and yes I'm not going to buy most of them, but that's not the point is it? The company aren't relying on me to buy 6 cars from them)
A sold out Hypercar programme that will no doubt generate cash to be invested back in mainstream models

Happy Friday

Thanks Rob,
Perfectly timed & absolutely spot on! It's very easy to throw grenades but I think the future is looking very bright!

[HBradley]

avinalarf said:

The DB11 has received mixed receptions,it's not that it's a bad car ,just not a game changer.

Steve,
Really? Don't agree at all. I think I've read or watched every review (by serious motoring journos) of the DB11 & they all echo what Henry Catchpole concluded, 'The DB11 is a seriously impressive car'.
It is light years ahead of the DB9, the car it replaces, surely then it is absolutely a game-changer?!

[Big Ry]

Got to say I would find a proper mid-engine 488 / McLaren rival very interesting. Lets be honest all of our Astons are cruisers of some description (yep even the V12V with rock hard suspension). Whilst we could all quite easily track them in reality few of us would or do. For me I just don't see any of the current line up in that light, whereas if they built a direct rival to 488's (or whatever it was called then) and if they get it right it could be fantastic for the brand and company.

[RobDown]

Agree Ry - it's the mid-engined car that appeals most , particularly if it features tech from the Valkyrie

[M5MarkM]

HBradley said:

Steve,
Really? Don't agree at all. I think I've read or watched every review (by serious motoring journos) of the DB11 & they all echo what Henry Catchpole concluded, 'The DB11 is a seriously impressive car'.
It is light years ahead of the DB9, the car it replaces, surely then it is absolutely a game-changer?!

I don't think the people who "hate" or "dislike" the DB11 thinks it's a bad car. I'm one of them, driven it and think it's a very capable car, nice to see a modern computer system in the car - AM have needed for... well forever really. BUT what we dislike is the fact it IS German Mercedes and it has turbos.... In 10 years we probably wont care. I imagine DB5 or DB6 owners frown upon the likes of my Vanquish S but it's a time thing. Right now I dislike the DB11 because its a german engine with turbos. By 2021 I will probably be used to that fact and want the new mid engine AM! Better than that I'd love a 4 door AM that I can use every day with a modern computer system! I use a 750 as a DD - sadly it is a german engine with turbos! BUT it's a very capable car to do 40,000 miles a year, the current Rapide isn't, now a 4 door version of the DB11 with a modern computer system, I'd have that! I'm WAAAAYYYYY off topic but hey people will come around to the DB11 way of thinking - germans and turbos....Soon we will love the german engine and turbos and complain about the battery powered or fart powered AM's we will no doubt see!

[Murph7355]

Ex Boy Racer said:

Yes. I'm starting to get memories of Danny Bahar with Aston Martin.

This.

As for mid-engined cars... They're 50yrs too late. No heritage in it. Better to build a razor sharp coupe that can genuinely take on Ferrari. No reason that should not be possible... Other than diluting efforts.

This isn't denigrating Aston. This is replaying its recent history and highlighting similar aspirations from others that amounted to nothing.

What is there from the last 5 or 6 years that suggests anything different will happen? The hook up with AMG maybe. But then rather a lot on here were moaning about that.

The new Vantage cannot come soon enough, and will tell us very clearly what to make of that line up. It needs to be very, very good.

[Neil1300r]

M5MarkM said:

I don't think the people who "hate" or "dislike" the DB11 thinks it's a bad car. I'm one of them, driven it and think it's a very capable car, nice to see a modern computer system in the car - AM have needed for... well forever really. BUT what we dislike is the fact it IS German Mercedes and it has turbos....

Err, it's not a Mercedes engine in the DB11. It is German as it's built at the Ford engine plant in Germany. Its a development of the Aston V12 engine with turbos.
Does have the horrendous merc dash and gobbing ugly tablet glued on top though

[AMDBSVNick]

Murph7355 said:

As for mid-engined cars... They're 50yrs too late.

McLaren seem to be doing OK

[Bincenzo]

RobDown said:

It's some peculiar British disease this "tall poppy syndrome" where people feel the need to constantly denigrate rather than celebrate. I know AML have had more than their fair share of issues over the decades, but maybe we should just stop and actually applaud them when things finally start to head in the right direction rather than clutch on to negatives

So while I'm here and to provide some balance to the "we're doomed" brigade

16Q4 sales up 48% year on year
January 2017 UK sales up 174%
EBITDA in 2016 +41% and expected to rise 60-65% in 2017
GBP200m invested in new Welsh production facility
Probably the most exciting new product pipeline the firm has ever seen (and yes I'm not going to buy most of them, but that's not the point is it? The company aren't relying on me to buy 6 cars from them)
A sold out Hypercar programme that will no doubt generate cash to be invested back in mainstream models

Happy Friday

Rob, thank you. I was beginning to think that the entire population of AM PH had given up hope completely. You simply can't do right for doing wrong, and it's getting to be a pretty depressing read.

[Jon39]

Neil1300r said:

Err, it's not a Mercedes engine in the DB11. It is German as it's built at the Ford engine plant in Germany. Its a development of the Aston V12 engine with turbos.

Not entirely German.
Engine block made by Grainger & Worrall of Bridgnorth, England.

Interestingly, the block casting must presumably travel from Bridgnorth to Cologne, then all the way back to Gaydon.

[rl77]

Development line looks impressive but the need to replace the two main sellers out of necessity in fairly quick succession may create another rapid sales rise hump.

Jag F Pace has kicked Jag sales forward tremendously and they are no longer just a poor relative held up by Evoques and other 4x4s. Accelerating DBX into sales asap would help. May not be typical Aston but if its a success and brings in new clients who need more than 2 or 2 plus 2 small seats its good if they can then have enough funds to continue to develop great front engined sportcars and GTs. If DBX can drive growth (and avoid a dip) then great.