F10 vs E60 impressions
Discussion
I thought I'd share my first thoughts on the F10 M5 as I've just swapped out my E60 a few weeks ago after owning for six and half years.
Firstly the car is genuinely supercar fast, at least in a straight line. I can totally believe the dyno results out there which suggest the engine delivers 600bhp stock. The drivability is totally different to the E60 - the overarching impression is massive torque everywhere. This combined with the instant gearbox (this is the first car I've own with a dual clutch transmission) means you can make very rapid progress indeed! Also you can't tell the car is turbo charged - not from lag anyway because there isn't any. From the sound, yes - the induction sound is almost absent so from the inside it doesn't sound anything special - not nasty - but it does have a meaty thrum. It sounds better from the outside but the cabin is well insulated so you don't get the hear that.
I'd say the steering has less feel - it's nice and linear and overall the car is more pointy than the E60. You can adjust steering mode but all it seems to do is add weight rather than feel. You can do the same for the engine and the suspension. I can't really tell what difference it makes to the engine (perhaps the throttle becomes more sensitive) but it doesn't change power like the power button in the E60. Suspension wise the comfort mode is more controlled than then E60 and the car corners flatter. Sport mode is what I drive around in - Sport Plus is too stiff for the roads. One thing the car doesn't need is stiffer suspension. It's a heavier car most noticable when it's recovering from vertical humps in the road - E60 rode those better - but it has got 600bhp to contain!
Ah yes, wheel spin. I drove around in the E60 with MDM on all the time - wet or dry - as it quashed the understeer and allowed the backend to steer the car a little. In the F10, MDM seems to form a different function - and I won't use that mode ever on the road. There is less understeer by default, and the standard traction control settings allow for wheel spin (which you will get in 2nd gear in the dry) and some sideways movement. I'm sure MDM mode will allow for a full powerslide but there's no place for that on the road.
To drive the car feels big. I eventually worked out why, for me anyway, it's because you are sitting nearer the centre of the car - in fact when you're driving down a B/A road you're almost sitting above the centre line of your lane. Once I worked that out the car shrunk around me and I started to feel confident throwing it around. Because of the gearbox, auto mode is actually usable (but I like controlling the changes). The M seats are very comfortable but don’t hug you automatically when cornering as in the E60. I don’t miss that actually – but I have realised they were useful when getting in and out the car – they use to relax when the door opened which means you didn’t rub the side bolsters so much.
As you might expect the tech is a good update over the E60. My favourite is the speed assist which reads the traffic signs and puts a picture of the current speed limit on your dashboard. Really cool and useful! The reversing camera is quite good although I seem to resort to my mirrors and beeps from the sensors. I've got USB memory stick plugged into the Professional sound system with all my music - much easier than using the phone. The sound is fine and I don't miss the HK system I had on the E60 - the BMW system has a DSP as well - I think sometimes people forget that cars are noisy places when they're rolling! The connected drive appears to be a mystery to BMW dealers. I paid £70 for a 6 month subscription to try it out - all it seems to do is give you better traffic updates over the internet vs radio. I don't really see value in the app which let's you flash the headlights etc. For some reason I also don't feel the leather is as tough - I guess time will tell. At least the MPG is better and the fuel tank larger so you're stopping every 350 miles not 200.
Overall the E60 was a well worn shoe to me and I’m getting the impression the F10 will be like that as well. I would say if you’re in a dilemma between an E60 and F10 I'd get E60 first even though the F10 is "better". Just so you get experience that lovely V10 engine and noise. They won't make them like that anymore!
Firstly the car is genuinely supercar fast, at least in a straight line. I can totally believe the dyno results out there which suggest the engine delivers 600bhp stock. The drivability is totally different to the E60 - the overarching impression is massive torque everywhere. This combined with the instant gearbox (this is the first car I've own with a dual clutch transmission) means you can make very rapid progress indeed! Also you can't tell the car is turbo charged - not from lag anyway because there isn't any. From the sound, yes - the induction sound is almost absent so from the inside it doesn't sound anything special - not nasty - but it does have a meaty thrum. It sounds better from the outside but the cabin is well insulated so you don't get the hear that.
I'd say the steering has less feel - it's nice and linear and overall the car is more pointy than the E60. You can adjust steering mode but all it seems to do is add weight rather than feel. You can do the same for the engine and the suspension. I can't really tell what difference it makes to the engine (perhaps the throttle becomes more sensitive) but it doesn't change power like the power button in the E60. Suspension wise the comfort mode is more controlled than then E60 and the car corners flatter. Sport mode is what I drive around in - Sport Plus is too stiff for the roads. One thing the car doesn't need is stiffer suspension. It's a heavier car most noticable when it's recovering from vertical humps in the road - E60 rode those better - but it has got 600bhp to contain!
Ah yes, wheel spin. I drove around in the E60 with MDM on all the time - wet or dry - as it quashed the understeer and allowed the backend to steer the car a little. In the F10, MDM seems to form a different function - and I won't use that mode ever on the road. There is less understeer by default, and the standard traction control settings allow for wheel spin (which you will get in 2nd gear in the dry) and some sideways movement. I'm sure MDM mode will allow for a full powerslide but there's no place for that on the road.
To drive the car feels big. I eventually worked out why, for me anyway, it's because you are sitting nearer the centre of the car - in fact when you're driving down a B/A road you're almost sitting above the centre line of your lane. Once I worked that out the car shrunk around me and I started to feel confident throwing it around. Because of the gearbox, auto mode is actually usable (but I like controlling the changes). The M seats are very comfortable but don’t hug you automatically when cornering as in the E60. I don’t miss that actually – but I have realised they were useful when getting in and out the car – they use to relax when the door opened which means you didn’t rub the side bolsters so much.
As you might expect the tech is a good update over the E60. My favourite is the speed assist which reads the traffic signs and puts a picture of the current speed limit on your dashboard. Really cool and useful! The reversing camera is quite good although I seem to resort to my mirrors and beeps from the sensors. I've got USB memory stick plugged into the Professional sound system with all my music - much easier than using the phone. The sound is fine and I don't miss the HK system I had on the E60 - the BMW system has a DSP as well - I think sometimes people forget that cars are noisy places when they're rolling! The connected drive appears to be a mystery to BMW dealers. I paid £70 for a 6 month subscription to try it out - all it seems to do is give you better traffic updates over the internet vs radio. I don't really see value in the app which let's you flash the headlights etc. For some reason I also don't feel the leather is as tough - I guess time will tell. At least the MPG is better and the fuel tank larger so you're stopping every 350 miles not 200.
Overall the E60 was a well worn shoe to me and I’m getting the impression the F10 will be like that as well. I would say if you’re in a dilemma between an E60 and F10 I'd get E60 first even though the F10 is "better". Just so you get experience that lovely V10 engine and noise. They won't make them like that anymore!
The <3500RPM lack of torque/flat spot in the S85 is quite akin to turbo lag in my opinion. Infact, I say it's even more pronounced as the S85 feels quite dead in the lower RPM range and then BOOM off it goes. The 4.4 TT in contrast has a much more linear throttle pedal. All in my humble opinion of course.
Schermerhorn said:
The <3500RPM lack of torque/flat spot in the S85 is quite akin to turbo lag in my opinion. Infact, I say it's even more pronounced as the S85 feels quite dead in the lower RPM range and then BOOM off it goes. The 4.4 TT in contrast has a much more linear throttle pedal. All in my humble opinion of course.
You should try the S85 with the FAMS tune, mine feels so much better than standard. Nowhere near the torque of the turbo engine but it pulls from low down much better than stock.andyvdg said:
I thought I'd share my first thoughts on the F10 M5 as I've just swapped out my E60 a few weeks ago after owning for six and half years.
Firstly the car is genuinely supercar fast, at least in a straight line. I can totally believe the dyno results out there which suggest the engine delivers 600bhp stock. The drivability is totally different to the E60 - the overarching impression is massive torque everywhere. This combined with the instant gearbox (this is the first car I've own with a dual clutch transmission) means you can make very rapid progress indeed! Also you can't tell the car is turbo charged - not from lag anyway because there isn't any. From the sound, yes - the induction sound is almost absent so from the inside it doesn't sound anything special - not nasty - but it does have a meaty thrum. It sounds better from the outside but the cabin is well insulated so you don't get the hear that.
I'd say the steering has less feel - it's nice and linear and overall the car is more pointy than the E60. You can adjust steering mode but all it seems to do is add weight rather than feel. You can do the same for the engine and the suspension. I can't really tell what difference it makes to the engine (perhaps the throttle becomes more sensitive) but it doesn't change power like the power button in the E60. Suspension wise the comfort mode is more controlled than then E60 and the car corners flatter. Sport mode is what I drive around in - Sport Plus is too stiff for the roads. One thing the car doesn't need is stiffer suspension. It's a heavier car most noticable when it's recovering from vertical humps in the road - E60 rode those better - but it has got 600bhp to contain!
Ah yes, wheel spin. I drove around in the E60 with MDM on all the time - wet or dry - as it quashed the understeer and allowed the backend to steer the car a little. In the F10, MDM seems to form a different function - and I won't use that mode ever on the road. There is less understeer by default, and the standard traction control settings allow for wheel spin (which you will get in 2nd gear in the dry) and some sideways movement. I'm sure MDM mode will allow for a full powerslide but there's no place for that on the road.
To drive the car feels big. I eventually worked out why, for me anyway, it's because you are sitting nearer the centre of the car - in fact when you're driving down a B/A road you're almost sitting above the centre line of your lane. Once I worked that out the car shrunk around me and I started to feel confident throwing it around. Because of the gearbox, auto mode is actually usable (but I like controlling the changes). The M seats are very comfortable but don’t hug you automatically when cornering as in the E60. I don’t miss that actually – but I have realised they were useful when getting in and out the car – they use to relax when the door opened which means you didn’t rub the side bolsters so much.
As you might expect the tech is a good update over the E60. My favourite is the speed assist which reads the traffic signs and puts a picture of the current speed limit on your dashboard. Really cool and useful! The reversing camera is quite good although I seem to resort to my mirrors and beeps from the sensors. I've got USB memory stick plugged into the Professional sound system with all my music - much easier than using the phone. The sound is fine and I don't miss the HK system I had on the E60 - the BMW system has a DSP as well - I think sometimes people forget that cars are noisy places when they're rolling! The connected drive appears to be a mystery to BMW dealers. I paid £70 for a 6 month subscription to try it out - all it seems to do is give you better traffic updates over the internet vs radio. I don't really see value in the app which let's you flash the headlights etc. For some reason I also don't feel the leather is as tough - I guess time will tell. At least the MPG is better and the fuel tank larger so you're stopping every 350 miles not 200.
Overall the E60 was a well worn shoe to me and I’m getting the impression the F10 will be like that as well. I would say if you’re in a dilemma between an E60 and F10 I'd get E60 first even though the F10 is "better". Just so you get experience that lovely V10 engine and noise. They won't make them like that anymore!
Great write up by the way, enjoyed reading,thanks.Firstly the car is genuinely supercar fast, at least in a straight line. I can totally believe the dyno results out there which suggest the engine delivers 600bhp stock. The drivability is totally different to the E60 - the overarching impression is massive torque everywhere. This combined with the instant gearbox (this is the first car I've own with a dual clutch transmission) means you can make very rapid progress indeed! Also you can't tell the car is turbo charged - not from lag anyway because there isn't any. From the sound, yes - the induction sound is almost absent so from the inside it doesn't sound anything special - not nasty - but it does have a meaty thrum. It sounds better from the outside but the cabin is well insulated so you don't get the hear that.
I'd say the steering has less feel - it's nice and linear and overall the car is more pointy than the E60. You can adjust steering mode but all it seems to do is add weight rather than feel. You can do the same for the engine and the suspension. I can't really tell what difference it makes to the engine (perhaps the throttle becomes more sensitive) but it doesn't change power like the power button in the E60. Suspension wise the comfort mode is more controlled than then E60 and the car corners flatter. Sport mode is what I drive around in - Sport Plus is too stiff for the roads. One thing the car doesn't need is stiffer suspension. It's a heavier car most noticable when it's recovering from vertical humps in the road - E60 rode those better - but it has got 600bhp to contain!
Ah yes, wheel spin. I drove around in the E60 with MDM on all the time - wet or dry - as it quashed the understeer and allowed the backend to steer the car a little. In the F10, MDM seems to form a different function - and I won't use that mode ever on the road. There is less understeer by default, and the standard traction control settings allow for wheel spin (which you will get in 2nd gear in the dry) and some sideways movement. I'm sure MDM mode will allow for a full powerslide but there's no place for that on the road.
To drive the car feels big. I eventually worked out why, for me anyway, it's because you are sitting nearer the centre of the car - in fact when you're driving down a B/A road you're almost sitting above the centre line of your lane. Once I worked that out the car shrunk around me and I started to feel confident throwing it around. Because of the gearbox, auto mode is actually usable (but I like controlling the changes). The M seats are very comfortable but don’t hug you automatically when cornering as in the E60. I don’t miss that actually – but I have realised they were useful when getting in and out the car – they use to relax when the door opened which means you didn’t rub the side bolsters so much.
As you might expect the tech is a good update over the E60. My favourite is the speed assist which reads the traffic signs and puts a picture of the current speed limit on your dashboard. Really cool and useful! The reversing camera is quite good although I seem to resort to my mirrors and beeps from the sensors. I've got USB memory stick plugged into the Professional sound system with all my music - much easier than using the phone. The sound is fine and I don't miss the HK system I had on the E60 - the BMW system has a DSP as well - I think sometimes people forget that cars are noisy places when they're rolling! The connected drive appears to be a mystery to BMW dealers. I paid £70 for a 6 month subscription to try it out - all it seems to do is give you better traffic updates over the internet vs radio. I don't really see value in the app which let's you flash the headlights etc. For some reason I also don't feel the leather is as tough - I guess time will tell. At least the MPG is better and the fuel tank larger so you're stopping every 350 miles not 200.
Overall the E60 was a well worn shoe to me and I’m getting the impression the F10 will be like that as well. I would say if you’re in a dilemma between an E60 and F10 I'd get E60 first even though the F10 is "better". Just so you get experience that lovely V10 engine and noise. They won't make them like that anymore!
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