Discussion
I had a few hours as a passenger in a porsche 718 s yesterday - mate picked it up a few months ago and it's the first time i have had a chance to see one at first hand.
Firstly -
His impressions ? Loves driving the car but hates the engine. He'd read the reviews prior to purchase, and thought the sports exhaust would fix the problem. It's a real disappointment - no character, no nice sounds, feels strained when you do have to wind it up often. He's also reported horrific fuel economy when giving it some heavy right foot - as in sub 16-20mpg on a cross country blast. Not what he was expecting at all and he really wishes he took a much longer test drive before signing on the line.
Real kicker is - he's going to sell it and look for last model Cayman 987 with the 3.4s engine instead.
My impressions from the left seat - as a ground covering machine it felt superb, really stable, so keen to dive into corners, PDK gearbox superb but my oh my that engine sounds awful. Such an impact to the driving experience too, i wouldnt put up with it at all. The sports exhaust sounds like a Demontweeks special too. Droning at certain points in the rev range and nothing nice about wringing the engines neck to the redline. Did not get a special feeling about the car at all.
Are Porsche selling these in great numbers? More than the previous model? Must admit now i have thought about it i've not seen that many on the roads. And according to my Pal, previous generation 6 cylinder model prices are staying very firm. Did Porsche make a bad mistake or are people still buying them regardless?
Firstly -
His impressions ? Loves driving the car but hates the engine. He'd read the reviews prior to purchase, and thought the sports exhaust would fix the problem. It's a real disappointment - no character, no nice sounds, feels strained when you do have to wind it up often. He's also reported horrific fuel economy when giving it some heavy right foot - as in sub 16-20mpg on a cross country blast. Not what he was expecting at all and he really wishes he took a much longer test drive before signing on the line.
Real kicker is - he's going to sell it and look for last model Cayman 987 with the 3.4s engine instead.
My impressions from the left seat - as a ground covering machine it felt superb, really stable, so keen to dive into corners, PDK gearbox superb but my oh my that engine sounds awful. Such an impact to the driving experience too, i wouldnt put up with it at all. The sports exhaust sounds like a Demontweeks special too. Droning at certain points in the rev range and nothing nice about wringing the engines neck to the redline. Did not get a special feeling about the car at all.
Are Porsche selling these in great numbers? More than the previous model? Must admit now i have thought about it i've not seen that many on the roads. And according to my Pal, previous generation 6 cylinder model prices are staying very firm. Did Porsche make a bad mistake or are people still buying them regardless?
The real question you've got to ask yourself is - do most people buying these cars new even care? They'll look at the stats, 0-60 in 5 secs so it's fast. And it's low emissions so the car tax is cheap(er). And it looks nice so that'll do.
Enthusiasts will care - your mate does. But honestly, how many of these cars are bought by people who really care about the driving dynamics and the noise it makes? It's a Porsche! That'll do.
Exactly the same applies to BMW M cars. BMW realised years ago that these were just fast 'top of the range' cars to most buyers, that's why the real M car is dead.
Enthusiasts will care - your mate does. But honestly, how many of these cars are bought by people who really care about the driving dynamics and the noise it makes? It's a Porsche! That'll do.
Exactly the same applies to BMW M cars. BMW realised years ago that these were just fast 'top of the range' cars to most buyers, that's why the real M car is dead.
Allocations are sold out and there is a queue for builds, so they're certainly selling.
Too soon to tell if they will sell as well as the previous 981 really, but early indications would seem so.
In terms of residuals, of the 8 used 718 Caymans both base and S variants on the Porsche approved network, all 8 are either higher than new build price or around the same, comparing like for like on spec. So again, early indications are that they are holding their value as well as the 981.
Time over the coming year will be more indicative.
Too soon to tell if they will sell as well as the previous 981 really, but early indications would seem so.
In terms of residuals, of the 8 used 718 Caymans both base and S variants on the Porsche approved network, all 8 are either higher than new build price or around the same, comparing like for like on spec. So again, early indications are that they are holding their value as well as the 981.
Time over the coming year will be more indicative.
Edited by Tim bo on Sunday 12th March 15:16
JasonSteel said:
the long wait times for the 718 Cayman in particular would seem to suggest that production numbers have been pretty low. that could well account for the higher than new used values and it should also bode well for 981 residuals.
Exactly. UK allocation isn't high at the moment, it'll be interesting to see how prices pan out next year.Had my first 'proper' driving session in the 981S - i've owned it for about 4 months but it's sat in the garage most of the winter.
Nice, dry day yesterday, so had a chance to open the car up on some A roads around the Surrey / Sussex borders.
I have to say, I don't regret my decision not to get the 718s one bit. the sound this car makes it pure pleasure and it's plenty fast enough for normal road use.
Nice, dry day yesterday, so had a chance to open the car up on some A roads around the Surrey / Sussex borders.
I have to say, I don't regret my decision not to get the 718s one bit. the sound this car makes it pure pleasure and it's plenty fast enough for normal road use.
Edited by hixster on Sunday 12th March 16:20
I was told they (PGB) sell around 20-30 boxsters a month and only around half the quantity of Caymans.
Tiny numbers really compared to 500 Cayenne and 500 Macans a month!
I drove the 718 at PEC. It sounded alright, but as soon as you turn on PSE it just sounded really rough. Little bit of lag too under 3000.
The 991 3.6 turbo on the other hand was great. Did not even feel turbo charged.
Tiny numbers really compared to 500 Cayenne and 500 Macans a month!
I drove the 718 at PEC. It sounded alright, but as soon as you turn on PSE it just sounded really rough. Little bit of lag too under 3000.
The 991 3.6 turbo on the other hand was great. Did not even feel turbo charged.
sly fox said:
I had a few hours as a passenger in a porsche 718 s yesterday - mate picked it up a few months ago and it's the first time i have had a chance to see one at first hand.
Firstly -
His impressions ? Loves driving the car but hates the engine. He'd read the reviews prior to purchase, and thought the sports exhaust would fix the problem. It's a real disappointment - no character, no nice sounds, feels strained when you do have to wind it up often. He's also reported horrific fuel economy when giving it some heavy right foot - as in sub 16-20mpg on a cross country blast. Not what he was expecting at all and he really wishes he took a much longer test drive before signing on the line.
Real kicker is - he's going to sell it and look for last model Cayman 987 with the 3.4s engine instead.
My impressions from the left seat - as a ground covering machine it felt superb, really stable, so keen to dive into corners, PDK gearbox superb but my oh my that engine sounds awful. Such an impact to the driving experience too, i wouldnt put up with it at all. The sports exhaust sounds like a Demontweeks special too. Droning at certain points in the rev range and nothing nice about wringing the engines neck to the redline. Did not get a special feeling about the car at all.
Are Porsche selling these in great numbers? More than the previous model? Must admit now i have thought about it i've not seen that many on the roads. And according to my Pal, previous generation 6 cylinder model prices are staying very firm. Did Porsche make a bad mistake or are people still buying them regardless?
I found the same and posted about it here.Firstly -
His impressions ? Loves driving the car but hates the engine. He'd read the reviews prior to purchase, and thought the sports exhaust would fix the problem. It's a real disappointment - no character, no nice sounds, feels strained when you do have to wind it up often. He's also reported horrific fuel economy when giving it some heavy right foot - as in sub 16-20mpg on a cross country blast. Not what he was expecting at all and he really wishes he took a much longer test drive before signing on the line.
Real kicker is - he's going to sell it and look for last model Cayman 987 with the 3.4s engine instead.
My impressions from the left seat - as a ground covering machine it felt superb, really stable, so keen to dive into corners, PDK gearbox superb but my oh my that engine sounds awful. Such an impact to the driving experience too, i wouldnt put up with it at all. The sports exhaust sounds like a Demontweeks special too. Droning at certain points in the rev range and nothing nice about wringing the engines neck to the redline. Did not get a special feeling about the car at all.
Are Porsche selling these in great numbers? More than the previous model? Must admit now i have thought about it i've not seen that many on the roads. And according to my Pal, previous generation 6 cylinder model prices are staying very firm. Did Porsche make a bad mistake or are people still buying them regardless?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=163...
It resulted in about 20 pages of 718 owners becoming defensive and uppity.
13m said:
I found the same and posted about it here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=163...
It resulted in about 20 pages of 718 owners becoming defensive and uppity.
Just as there are threads where 981 owners get defensive and uppity the moment anyone sings the praises of the 718 and dares to mention that the 981 has less power, torque, or is slower.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=163...
It resulted in about 20 pages of 718 owners becoming defensive and uppity.
-shrugs-
The subject has been discussed to death on PH and elsewhere.
Edited by Tim bo on Sunday 12th March 18:46
Tim bo said:
13m said:
I found the same and posted about it here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=163...
It resulted in about 20 pages of 718 owners becoming defensive and uppity.
Just as there are heaps of threads where 981 owners get defensive and uppity the moment anyone sings the praises of the 718, or dares to mention that the 981 has less power, torque, or is slower.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=163...
It resulted in about 20 pages of 718 owners becoming defensive and uppity.
-shrugs-
The subject has been discussed to death.
I have never owned a 981, but I've driven one. It didn't set my pulse racing to be honest, but it was an infinitey better car than the 718.
bcr5784 said:
red_slr said:
The 991 3.6 turbo on the other hand was great. Did not even feel turbo charged.
I think you should wash your mouth out. Don't you know that it is a universal truth that all turbos are dire and awful!Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 12th March 19:24
The 718, however, WAS dire and awful in my opinion. Good chassis, dreadful engine.
13m said:
I don't think anyone is saying that all turbos are dire and awful. I've owned and driven turbo Porsches and whilst they weren't awful, they weren't particularly nice either.
The 718, however, WAS dire and awful in my opinion. Good chassis, dreadful engine.
Sorry, you've doubtless not seen my previous posts on this issue - it was said tongue in cheek. I didn't like the 718 engine either - but do like the 991.2. But there are those on here for whom the turbo is the invention of the devil (or at least close)The 718, however, WAS dire and awful in my opinion. Good chassis, dreadful engine.
bcr5784 said:
red_slr said:
The 991 3.6 turbo on the other hand was great. Did not even feel turbo charged.
I think you should wash your mouth out. Don't you know that it is a universal truth that all turbos are dire and awful!Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 12th March 19:24
Ari said:
The real question you've got to ask yourself is - do most people buying these cars new even care? They'll look at the stats, 0-60 in 5 secs so it's fast. And it's low emissions so the car tax is cheap(er). And it looks nice so that'll do.
Enthusiasts will care - your mate does. But honestly, how many of these cars are bought by people who really care about the driving dynamics and the noise it makes? It's a Porsche! That'll do.
Maybe not for all of us. I've driven a few Porsches over the years, and never owned one, but always wanted to. I ignored all the stats, and had a drive in a couple of 718 Boxsters, as well as a couple of 981 Caymans. And then I drove a couple of 718 Caymans. To give an idea of the Porsches I have tried over the years:Enthusiasts will care - your mate does. But honestly, how many of these cars are bought by people who really care about the driving dynamics and the noise it makes? It's a Porsche! That'll do.
911SC circa '79
930 Turbo circa same era (and a bit scary)
911 Carrera (last of the proper air-cooled)
924 x loads
944 x loads
924S x loads
944 S and turbo x loads
968 (seminal car, I'd own one now if they were available new)
928
928S (did about 1 month in that as a daily drive, with a supercharger fitted, was lovely, and it flew)
928 S4 (best GT car of all time, shame I didn't get to spend as long in the supercharged version we worked on...)
964 C4 (for about 3000 miles, got to know it quite well)
996 convertible (great car, wobbly chassis though)
987 Boxster
981 Boxster, Boxster S, Cayman S
718 in every form available
I know it's not a 981, but I wanted a new Porsche Cayman, and it's what is available. I know it sounds different, but there's more to life than noise to me (I'm getting the quietest exhaust available). I know it feels different, but I quite like turbo engines, and 2-2.5 litres is enough in my mind, the handling is still sublime.
Please don't condemn me to being a "non enthusiast" because I'm buying a 718. I love Porsches, have done for the last 45 years or so. I like the 718s, but admit they are a step away from what anyone has become used to, but they are a half interesting sports car at worst. I'm not about to end up owning one out of some special form of idiocy, but from long term enthusiasm for the marque, and from really enjoying the few hours I have spent test driving the cars.
The car tax is outrageous if you get one after April (which I will), and the fuel consumption is unlikely to be anything special. I'm getting one because I want one. I bet a few others will be in the same boat as me.
Liam
^^^
Well said.
It does make me chuckle the insinuation that because you're willing to spend money on a turbo'd 4-pot, you can't possibly be a car enthusiast.
My 718 will be my daily driver for work. I'm lucky enough to also have access to a 987 Boxster S and a Macan GTS to drive regularly too which I love both in different ways.
In an ideal world I guess I would prefer a naturally aspirated peach of an engine, but this is the way things are and I wanted the opportunity to spec a brand new Porsche as a treat to myself and the 718 is the one in budget!. I think in 2,0 form at least the engine is dam effective and whilst I'd prefer a 3.2S over a 2.5T, i actually genuinely prefer the 2.0 to the 2.7, which although creamy smooth, I've always felt lacks the fireworks the chassis needs/deserves.
Whatever you think of the engine, I would still contend that the 718 is still a far better car than any if its rivals currently on sale.
I will occassionally track the car, but we also have a Lotus Exige S2 which we use mainly for trackdays, so having a sports car that does everything well for the daily grind was our key goal for the 718.
But feel free to disregard my opinion as I'm obviously not a true enthusiast and am more interested in posing with a Porka badge
Well said.
It does make me chuckle the insinuation that because you're willing to spend money on a turbo'd 4-pot, you can't possibly be a car enthusiast.
My 718 will be my daily driver for work. I'm lucky enough to also have access to a 987 Boxster S and a Macan GTS to drive regularly too which I love both in different ways.
In an ideal world I guess I would prefer a naturally aspirated peach of an engine, but this is the way things are and I wanted the opportunity to spec a brand new Porsche as a treat to myself and the 718 is the one in budget!. I think in 2,0 form at least the engine is dam effective and whilst I'd prefer a 3.2S over a 2.5T, i actually genuinely prefer the 2.0 to the 2.7, which although creamy smooth, I've always felt lacks the fireworks the chassis needs/deserves.
Whatever you think of the engine, I would still contend that the 718 is still a far better car than any if its rivals currently on sale.
I will occassionally track the car, but we also have a Lotus Exige S2 which we use mainly for trackdays, so having a sports car that does everything well for the daily grind was our key goal for the 718.
But feel free to disregard my opinion as I'm obviously not a true enthusiast and am more interested in posing with a Porka badge
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