Extended Working Hours - Thoughts/Opinions?
Discussion
How stringently do you adhere to your "office" hours?
My official work day is 8.30am until 5pm, although on the vast majority of days I'm at my desk and working shortly after 8am and leave within 5 minutes of 5pm. Again, the majority of the time I am able to complete my work in this time even with a fair amount of online procrastination. On busier days, there's less procrastination and I'm mostly still able to leave on time. As a result of this, I am pushing for an increased job role and expect my days to fill up somewhat.
Looking at shared calendars with senior management, and seeing the times I receive emails from them, they all appear to work far longer hours. I often receive messages after 9pm, and they have diary events throughout the evening most days.
There are two streams of thought on this generally. The first is that you should be able to complete your work within the allocated time, and if not you need to review how you're working and/or consider if you're over-worked. The other is that sometimes the job is just bigger than the hours, and you suck it up and deal with it for the 'right' pay.
I sit towards the latter end of the argument, in that there comes a point where longer hours are expected, and generally you are remunerated for them. My other half argues more that you are paid for your working hours, and your quality of life should be more important. Ironically, despite working shorter hours he also earns more than me, which is no doubt affecting both of our judgements.
I guess my question here is which side of that fence you sit on? Is there a salary point where "evening work" becomes acceptable, or would you always be turning off your emails at 5pm?
My official work day is 8.30am until 5pm, although on the vast majority of days I'm at my desk and working shortly after 8am and leave within 5 minutes of 5pm. Again, the majority of the time I am able to complete my work in this time even with a fair amount of online procrastination. On busier days, there's less procrastination and I'm mostly still able to leave on time. As a result of this, I am pushing for an increased job role and expect my days to fill up somewhat.
Looking at shared calendars with senior management, and seeing the times I receive emails from them, they all appear to work far longer hours. I often receive messages after 9pm, and they have diary events throughout the evening most days.
There are two streams of thought on this generally. The first is that you should be able to complete your work within the allocated time, and if not you need to review how you're working and/or consider if you're over-worked. The other is that sometimes the job is just bigger than the hours, and you suck it up and deal with it for the 'right' pay.
I sit towards the latter end of the argument, in that there comes a point where longer hours are expected, and generally you are remunerated for them. My other half argues more that you are paid for your working hours, and your quality of life should be more important. Ironically, despite working shorter hours he also earns more than me, which is no doubt affecting both of our judgements.
I guess my question here is which side of that fence you sit on? Is there a salary point where "evening work" becomes acceptable, or would you always be turning off your emails at 5pm?
It depends entirely on the job. If you're working as a customer support agent in a call centre then your hours are exactly that. Any overtime should be paid by the hour.
If however you are running that call centre then obviously there may be many things that need to be done outside of your scheduled work hours. Whether that involves meeting prospective new clients or dealing with urgent issues that need fixing at any time of day or night. Salary obviously goes up with your obligations.
It's a choice everyone has to make - you can choose to continue in a job where you "switch off" at 5pm and go home if that's what you want, other people choose a job that may involve much longer hours - not necessarily in the office but hours where you're still "switched on" - because they get satisfaction from their work. I would hate to be in a job where I was clock watching every day, thinking about when I get to go home.
Edit: To actually answer the question! I work whatever hours are needed. Sometimes this is 8 - 6, sometimes much longer. I'll send out emails at 6am or 9pm, depending on what is going on and where I need to be.
If however you are running that call centre then obviously there may be many things that need to be done outside of your scheduled work hours. Whether that involves meeting prospective new clients or dealing with urgent issues that need fixing at any time of day or night. Salary obviously goes up with your obligations.
It's a choice everyone has to make - you can choose to continue in a job where you "switch off" at 5pm and go home if that's what you want, other people choose a job that may involve much longer hours - not necessarily in the office but hours where you're still "switched on" - because they get satisfaction from their work. I would hate to be in a job where I was clock watching every day, thinking about when I get to go home.
Edit: To actually answer the question! I work whatever hours are needed. Sometimes this is 8 - 6, sometimes much longer. I'll send out emails at 6am or 9pm, depending on what is going on and where I need to be.
Edited by menguin on Tuesday 14th March 09:53
For me, it's all about work / life balance. I have no issue working in an evening/morning if my day is just as flexible.
I take serious exception to these enforced 9-5 working hours, it's old fashioned and un-quantifiable in a modern world where communication is so accessible. Companies want you to "work" the 9-5, even when sat twiddling your thumbs waiting for that client e-mail or the next task - But also want you to work in the evenings when required? No thanks, you can't have your cake and eat it.
I take serious exception to these enforced 9-5 working hours, it's old fashioned and un-quantifiable in a modern world where communication is so accessible. Companies want you to "work" the 9-5, even when sat twiddling your thumbs waiting for that client e-mail or the next task - But also want you to work in the evenings when required? No thanks, you can't have your cake and eat it.
Again it depends on the job. I think it requires some flexibility from employer and employee, and a modicum of trust. My role is within a big Pharma company and I deal with emerging markets all over the world. I often have meetings and TCs late at night or early in the morning because of time zones. However I get a certain amount of flexibility. I can elect to work from home when I feel like it (within reason) and if I want to leave work early then that's no problem providing I get everything that needs doing done.
Bear in mind, a lot of the managers who are sending emails at 10pm are probably sat with a glass of wine watching telly responding to a few messages on their phone rather than knee deep in spreadsheets. The appearance of doing long hours is all part of the game further up the food chain....
Bear in mind, a lot of the managers who are sending emails at 10pm are probably sat with a glass of wine watching telly responding to a few messages on their phone rather than knee deep in spreadsheets. The appearance of doing long hours is all part of the game further up the food chain....
I can't stand presenteeism, smacks of lazy, clueless management if they can't tell when somebody is more productive and somebody is just at the office more.
I've done more than my fair share of (unpaid) all nighters when needed, but I draw the line at sitting in the office till 7pm just because it looks good.
I've done more than my fair share of (unpaid) all nighters when needed, but I draw the line at sitting in the office till 7pm just because it looks good.
It's a tricky one. I went from being a busy software developer to a manic IT Service Manager and my hours are the same but I have to do so much more work. My hours are 8:30 until 5. I'm always here early (to get a decent parking space usually!) say between 7 and 8 is the norm. I have to leave dead on 5pm as I have to pick my son up from the childminders at 5:30 and have very little time to get stuck in traffic. My role often requires travel which is different but my view is if you are working 2 or 3 hours extra every day then you are poor at time management and need training or you are under resourced so you need to produce a detailed resource plan and show the over subscription to your boss to prove it. There may not be a budget for support but at least you have a case to use and can maybe push for more flexible working or other benefits.
I have a work phone and I do sometimes get late emails and calls but I choose whether to answer them or not. Sometimes I send the odd quick email late at night but mostly, I ignore it. I actually book an hour every morning in my calendar which can't be booked out by anyone else to answer emails and correspondence. Some days it's manic and I don't have enough time to even do that but other days I can get through them in 10 minutes and I have time to prepare for meetings or do other work.
Some useful tips I learned on management training. Don't be scared to refuse meeting invites if there is no agenda or if you feel a quick call will do better than having a full on meeting. So many people want a meeting to get an answer/decision and it drives me mad. Also start to think about having 45 minute meetings rather than back to back hour meetings. That way you're never late for the next one and you have some time to prepare properly.
I have a work phone and I do sometimes get late emails and calls but I choose whether to answer them or not. Sometimes I send the odd quick email late at night but mostly, I ignore it. I actually book an hour every morning in my calendar which can't be booked out by anyone else to answer emails and correspondence. Some days it's manic and I don't have enough time to even do that but other days I can get through them in 10 minutes and I have time to prepare for meetings or do other work.
Some useful tips I learned on management training. Don't be scared to refuse meeting invites if there is no agenda or if you feel a quick call will do better than having a full on meeting. So many people want a meeting to get an answer/decision and it drives me mad. Also start to think about having 45 minute meetings rather than back to back hour meetings. That way you're never late for the next one and you have some time to prepare properly.
romeogolf said:
Looking at shared calendars with senior management, and seeing the times I receive emails from them, they all appear to work far longer hours. I often receive messages after 9pm, and they have diary events throughout the evening most days.
Perhaps if these 'senior' managers cant perform the required tasks within the allowed time, they should be seeking alternative employment where they can.Work smart, not hard, delegate and deflect.
Tend to echo Menguin that I think it's very dependent on the role.
I work in IT and we have a Help Desk who work set hours and come in on time, leave on time, and probably don't give work a second thought outside of those hours.
My role is based around core hours but essentially comes down to "do the job" so sometimes you'll find me working odd hours, sometimes it means doing stuff at unsociable times.
I think in most roles there's a tipping point where the amount of extra money you might make for the impact earning that money has on your life simply isn't worth it.
I work in IT and we have a Help Desk who work set hours and come in on time, leave on time, and probably don't give work a second thought outside of those hours.
My role is based around core hours but essentially comes down to "do the job" so sometimes you'll find me working odd hours, sometimes it means doing stuff at unsociable times.
I think in most roles there's a tipping point where the amount of extra money you might make for the impact earning that money has on your life simply isn't worth it.
Definitely depends on job role, I wouldn't expect someone working a shift in a call centre to work over their set hours unless it's O/T to fill in, the manager would delegate and do their set hours. My last role required 24/7 oversight of staff to support and make sure everything went to plan, they went home after 2 days work and switched off
RTB said:
Bear in mind, a lot of the managers who are sending emails at 10pm are probably sat with a glass of wine watching telly responding to a few messages on their phone rather than knee deep in spreadsheets. The appearance of doing long hours is all part of the game further up the food chain....
With regards to the OP, I think it depends on the job and the money. I've been in the position of management where I'd have a laptop but my day wouldn't finish much later that 6pm (9-5 hours) normally. I didn't expect my staff to work past their hours as they were in positions that shouldn't require them to (and if they needed to then why is that?), and their salaries did not reflect those hours
I've also been in the position in a bigger company where I'd be expected to stay until 11pm sometimes, and come in at the weekends, mainly because my boss didn't have a life so neither should anyone else, and I'd get phone calls for information on the one day I was off sick in the time I worked there... he also thought that my staff shouldn’t take their holidays when they asked for them off and that they too should be at work at all hours of the day.
Currently I'm in a more senior position that that, reporting only to the MD, but back to a smaller company. I work 8 - 4, I'm home no later than half 5 every day and I don't get stupid calls and emails at all hours of the evening.
I prefer my current job.
However when I set up my business I'll probably need to work a lot more hours than I do now.
I think in general businesses need to understand that people need to have lives and turn off from work. You're much less productive if you're always thinking about it and you're tired, whatever position you're in.
But overall it depends on the job, your salary, your boss, the business and what you're prepared to do. If you're happy to do all the hours under the sun then fine, I just don't think you should expect everyone else to, particularly if they are not on a salary to warrant it.
Edited by Trackside Junior on Wednesday 15th March 07:01
I work shifts and have set hours and days. Anything extra is paid overtime, which I rarely work.
I really like to get out and drive this time of year. I do however struggle to find anyone else wanting to do the same.
I'm on various forums, clubs, fb groups, whatsapp groups, quite a spread and number of people and the answer is the same every time, 'sorry working'.
I guess that's where all these 200 miles per year cars come from.
Amazes me really that so many people have so little control over their working hours and so little rest time. Makes me realise how good my job is!
I really like to get out and drive this time of year. I do however struggle to find anyone else wanting to do the same.
I'm on various forums, clubs, fb groups, whatsapp groups, quite a spread and number of people and the answer is the same every time, 'sorry working'.
I guess that's where all these 200 miles per year cars come from.
Amazes me really that so many people have so little control over their working hours and so little rest time. Makes me realise how good my job is!
I think it's swings and roundabouts.
I think every employee should be willing to go the extra mile on occasion when required, and every employer should do the same - show a bit of class during a bereavement etc.
When this occurs, I find people don't clock watch, on either side of the deal.
If people regularly are working silly hours, you need to question why. Ruthless prioritisation and planning to deliver effective output is what I try to instil will the managers and teams who work for me.
If we worked 200 hours straight, there would still be more work left, so focus on tasks that are either a genuine top business priority, - not just important for the person who asked us to do it - or those which enable more effective/efficient working .
I think every employee should be willing to go the extra mile on occasion when required, and every employer should do the same - show a bit of class during a bereavement etc.
When this occurs, I find people don't clock watch, on either side of the deal.
If people regularly are working silly hours, you need to question why. Ruthless prioritisation and planning to deliver effective output is what I try to instil will the managers and teams who work for me.
If we worked 200 hours straight, there would still be more work left, so focus on tasks that are either a genuine top business priority, - not just important for the person who asked us to do it - or those which enable more effective/efficient working .
I had one last week - interview arranged for 8:30, then moved to 8:00, then to 7:30, which I declined, as I was already getting up at 5:00 to make certain of the 8:00 time.
They cancelled the interview as I wasn't "flexible" enough.
b
ks to that, I'm doing 50 hour weeks + 10+ hrs travelling as it is.
They cancelled the interview as I wasn't "flexible" enough.
b
ks to that, I'm doing 50 hour weeks + 10+ hrs travelling as it is.Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff