Tennancy agreement incorrect..and signed
Discussion
We are currently in rented and looking to purchase imminently, When our last tenancy agreement expired the landlord and us decided we wanted a longer 2 year one rather than 12months. He was more than happy with that but wanted a 2 month break clause added. Both LL and us were in agreement that it was needed for a 2 month break clause and we have it in writing over various emails that it would be added to new tenancy agreement.
Unfortunately when the agreement arrived sometime later rather foolishly we didn't spot the EA had omitted to add in the break clause to the new agreement. We are now at the stage where we are about to put in an offer for a house and realised we have signed an TA with no break clause meaning we cant vacate until end of December. Would the written communication between LL and us take precedence over the EA's mistake, despite us rather foolishly signing the incorrect paperwork ?
I know the answer would be to approach LL and ask, however its a game of cat and mouse right now and we don't want to show our intent of moving too fast...as we suspect he is thinking of selling soon.
Unfortunately when the agreement arrived sometime later rather foolishly we didn't spot the EA had omitted to add in the break clause to the new agreement. We are now at the stage where we are about to put in an offer for a house and realised we have signed an TA with no break clause meaning we cant vacate until end of December. Would the written communication between LL and us take precedence over the EA's mistake, despite us rather foolishly signing the incorrect paperwork ?
I know the answer would be to approach LL and ask, however its a game of cat and mouse right now and we don't want to show our intent of moving too fast...as we suspect he is thinking of selling soon.
IANAL: if it went to court (unlikely I know) the signed agreement would be the only thing that mattered and the prior correspondance would only be considered as the intent of the parties if there was no signed agreement.
That said, (a) what does your signed agreement actually say about notice to quit for you as tennant to give the landlord? and (b) any legal agreement can be ammended if the parties want to, you just need to make it in the landlord's interest to vary the agreement.
In your shoes I wouldn't (and didn't) give notice till I had exchanged. Mine was only a month's rent at £600 and meant I could be relaxed on moving in day, and had time to decorate where I had bought before filling it with furniture and get the rental I was leaving cleaned and spruced up before I handed it back. The fully returned deposit "paid" for that.
That said, (a) what does your signed agreement actually say about notice to quit for you as tennant to give the landlord? and (b) any legal agreement can be ammended if the parties want to, you just need to make it in the landlord's interest to vary the agreement.
In your shoes I wouldn't (and didn't) give notice till I had exchanged. Mine was only a month's rent at £600 and meant I could be relaxed on moving in day, and had time to decorate where I had bought before filling it with furniture and get the rental I was leaving cleaned and spruced up before I handed it back. The fully returned deposit "paid" for that.
KevinCamaroSS said:
IIRC an AST can be broken after 6 months anyway. However, for future use, an AST can roll on to a monthly basis without requiring a new agreement. This means there was no need to renew the lease agreement in the first place. This is presuming it was/is an AST?
Nope. Minimum term for an AST is 6 months, but if the fixed term is longer then that will apply.OP. To get a firm view on this your going to need advice from a property litigation lawyer. However I suspect you would end up with a 50/50 result of success.
If the LL wants to sell that is going to work in your favour, and it's worth having a gentle chat first. If the gentle chat does not work, it is gonna be down to who is going to blink first.
The emails show an intention at that time to include the break clause. LL could easily argue that the intention had changed when the document drawn up etc... (whether rightly or wrongly).
Some agents, normally the large corporate companies, the negotiators comission is paid on the length of the contract to a break clause, not the length of contract in total. It wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't an accident by the negotiatior to make sure they were paid commission for 24 months, not 2.
Forward the agreement you had in writing to the agent/landlord and say that there is a mistake and the agreement wasn't reflected in the contract as agreed. Could this be rectified immediately.
I'd be very surprised if it wasn't sorted without the need for legals etc.
Forward the agreement you had in writing to the agent/landlord and say that there is a mistake and the agreement wasn't reflected in the contract as agreed. Could this be rectified immediately.
I'd be very surprised if it wasn't sorted without the need for legals etc.
The correspondence is material if you take it to court and argue that the Engrossed Document did not match the agreement made.
But.
a. Chances of success are at best 50% as noted above
b. The cost of lawyers will almost certainly be more than 6 months rent
I think you need to discuss it with the landlord and agent in the room at the same time, with print outs of the email agreement. Reach a compromise if necessary, but landlord/agent may just roll-over.
Learning point - Always, always read the agreement. I don't just mean read it. Before you pick up the final version make a list of things you expect to see in it and things you don't want in it. Then as you read cross the items off your list. Then think again, re-do your list and repeat the exercise. Even better, use a lawyer and brief him/her on the detail of the terms
But.
a. Chances of success are at best 50% as noted above
b. The cost of lawyers will almost certainly be more than 6 months rent
I think you need to discuss it with the landlord and agent in the room at the same time, with print outs of the email agreement. Reach a compromise if necessary, but landlord/agent may just roll-over.
Learning point - Always, always read the agreement. I don't just mean read it. Before you pick up the final version make a list of things you expect to see in it and things you don't want in it. Then as you read cross the items off your list. Then think again, re-do your list and repeat the exercise. Even better, use a lawyer and brief him/her on the detail of the terms
fastbikes76 said:
I know the answer would be to approach LL and ask, however its a game of cat and mouse right now and we don't want to show our intent of moving too fast...as we suspect he is thinking of selling soon.
From the fact that you've had previous discussions with the landlord it sounds as though you already have a good relationship with him. Under those circumstances, if you're already looking for somewhere else, I would expect him to be reasonable if it is his intention to sell, because it gives him some degree of certainty. I say this having been issued notice by a landlord last year when they decided to sell up. I decided it was the right time to buy a place, and the landlord was understanding in allowing me to stay on beyond the notice date when I got a completion date that was a month or so later. From the landlord's side, it is no different to selling a house with a chain and they will have income for as long as you are in the property.Its a 24 month AST with 1 months notice either way from memory, It was meant to be a 24 month AST with a 2 month break clause after first 12 months.
We do in fact get on well with landlord and he has been a pretty sound guy, but...there is definitely something about him that gives the wife and I both the impression he 'could' be an utter arse if he wanted too. We don't want to show our hand yet as we don't know how long it will take to exchange once our offer is accepted as the house we looking at is at the end of a 4 house chain. I fear if we approach him too soon he will stick the house up for sale. Ironically out the blue there were 2 EA's here last week valuing the house. He assured us it was nothing to worry about, my gut says otherwise.
When we ready we will just provide them with 2 months notice and see what happens, it may even be a lot closer to December anyways if enough people in the chain mess around.
So legally, the TA we signed would take priority over the agreement between LL and us made beforehand.
We do in fact get on well with landlord and he has been a pretty sound guy, but...there is definitely something about him that gives the wife and I both the impression he 'could' be an utter arse if he wanted too. We don't want to show our hand yet as we don't know how long it will take to exchange once our offer is accepted as the house we looking at is at the end of a 4 house chain. I fear if we approach him too soon he will stick the house up for sale. Ironically out the blue there were 2 EA's here last week valuing the house. He assured us it was nothing to worry about, my gut says otherwise.
When we ready we will just provide them with 2 months notice and see what happens, it may even be a lot closer to December anyways if enough people in the chain mess around.
So legally, the TA we signed would take priority over the agreement between LL and us made beforehand.
fastbikes76 said:
Its a 24 month AST with 1 months notice either way from memory, It was meant to be a 24 month AST with a 2 month break clause after first 12 months.
We do in fact get on well with landlord and he has been a pretty sound guy, but...there is definitely something about him that gives the wife and I both the impression he 'could' be an utter arse if he wanted too. We don't want to show our hand yet as we don't know how long it will take to exchange once our offer is accepted as the house we looking at is at the end of a 4 house chain. I fear if we approach him too soon he will stick the house up for sale. Ironically out the blue there were 2 EA's here last week valuing the house. He assured us it was nothing to worry about, my gut says otherwise.
When we ready we will just provide them with 2 months notice and see what happens, it may even be a lot closer to December anyways if enough people in the chain mess around.
So legally, the TA we signed would take priority over the agreement between LL and us made beforehand.
Every now and then landlords get us to value their houses and in the vast majority of cases it is due to an impending sale. Often the excuse is for "insurance purposes". Maybe sit tight for a few weeks as could be a good bargaining chip if he does want to sell and have access to the house for viewings.We do in fact get on well with landlord and he has been a pretty sound guy, but...there is definitely something about him that gives the wife and I both the impression he 'could' be an utter arse if he wanted too. We don't want to show our hand yet as we don't know how long it will take to exchange once our offer is accepted as the house we looking at is at the end of a 4 house chain. I fear if we approach him too soon he will stick the house up for sale. Ironically out the blue there were 2 EA's here last week valuing the house. He assured us it was nothing to worry about, my gut says otherwise.
When we ready we will just provide them with 2 months notice and see what happens, it may even be a lot closer to December anyways if enough people in the chain mess around.
So legally, the TA we signed would take priority over the agreement between LL and us made beforehand.
Which agent are you dealing with? A hint would help if not comfortable giving the answer outright.
FrankAbagnale said:
Every now and then landlords get us to value their houses and in the vast majority of cases it is due to an impending sale. Often the excuse is for "insurance purposes". Maybe sit tight for a few weeks as could be a good bargaining chip if he does want to sell and have access to the house for viewings.
Which agent are you dealing with? A hint would help if not comfortable giving the answer outright.
Exactly my plan..hang tight and keep trying to progress with our purchase and hopefully beating him too it. Which agent are you dealing with? A hint would help if not comfortable giving the answer outright.
EA is Martins &Co
Don't want to sound like a doom mongerer, but given there's generally iro 25% chance of a sale failing due to someone getting cold feet, cant get a mortgage, ect somewhere in the chain, you don't want to be giving up you're home with only 8w to find somewhere else, until you're almost over the line with the sale. I'd not give notice til exchange of contracts.
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