Higher Mileage 997.1 C2
Discussion
Hi guys
An unusual turn of events has brought a local 997.1 3.6 C2 onto my radar - FPSH with a couple of owners from new. Mileage is c.100k
Operating at pace, what sort of diligence is needed on one of these?
It's May 05 - so likely the stronger IMS bearing. My bigger concern is bore scoring.
My use of cars does involve a few short journeys (2-3 miles) - is this going to exasperate any potential problems?
Hard to work out a market value - any suggestions?
Thanks
An unusual turn of events has brought a local 997.1 3.6 C2 onto my radar - FPSH with a couple of owners from new. Mileage is c.100k
Operating at pace, what sort of diligence is needed on one of these?
It's May 05 - so likely the stronger IMS bearing. My bigger concern is bore scoring.
My use of cars does involve a few short journeys (2-3 miles) - is this going to exasperate any potential problems?
Hard to work out a market value - any suggestions?
Thanks
I have a 98K mile Cayman s. I say 'go for it'. These engines can lunch themselves at far lower mileage. I'd check good service records, good rads, new discs and pads and tyres - as these things can run into several thousands of not recently refreshed.
Also - short journeys won't matter, as even a car that comes long journeys spends the first ten minutes running cold.
Also - short journeys won't matter, as even a car that comes long journeys spends the first ten minutes running cold.
I bought an 05 997S in October and had an inspection done on it. It had had engine work done by Hartech, so that gave some peace of mind. In your case, I'd definitely suggest a PPI including a borescope. It'll cost a bit, but it's worth it for peace of mind - you'll know what you're buying. A rebuilt engine would cost upwards of £10k. At that mileage, hopefully there's a bundle of paperwork showing what's been done.
You probably will not want to hear this but at that mileage it is more likely than not - that the pistons coatings are worn and the bonding securing the small silicon particles in the Lokasil cylinder bore will release more sooner or later (if not already).
However they are brilliant cars.
As long as you get the cylinders checked (or factor in an allowance for rebuilding the engine properly) and could afford the extra (if needed one day) it will be a great buy.
Not one to take a risk on however - so either price is right or bores are checked - but (and this is the important bit) even if the are OK at the moment - you must factor in a price reduction to allow for the rebuild to be somewhat contributed to in your ownership.
I don't think you should expect to factor in too great a price reduction however because after a reliable rebuild the car will be worth more and last longer - so there is an element of "bettermeant" in the valuation.
Also - if there was no bore scoring yet and it went on our Maintenance Plan - you would be covered against the full cost of the eventual rebuild (by paying only for the parts involved).
Baz
However they are brilliant cars.
As long as you get the cylinders checked (or factor in an allowance for rebuilding the engine properly) and could afford the extra (if needed one day) it will be a great buy.
Not one to take a risk on however - so either price is right or bores are checked - but (and this is the important bit) even if the are OK at the moment - you must factor in a price reduction to allow for the rebuild to be somewhat contributed to in your ownership.
I don't think you should expect to factor in too great a price reduction however because after a reliable rebuild the car will be worth more and last longer - so there is an element of "bettermeant" in the valuation.
Also - if there was no bore scoring yet and it went on our Maintenance Plan - you would be covered against the full cost of the eventual rebuild (by paying only for the parts involved).
Baz
hartech said:
You probably will not want to hear this but at that mileage it is more likely than not - that the pistons coatings are worn and the bonding securing the small silicon particles in the Lokasil cylinder bore will release more sooner or later (if not already).
However they are brilliant cars.
As long as you get the cylinders checked (or factor in an allowance for rebuilding the engine properly) and could afford the extra (if needed one day) it will be a great buy.
Not one to take a risk on however - so either price is right or bores are checked - but (and this is the important bit) even if the are OK at the moment - you must factor in a price reduction to allow for the rebuild to be somewhat contributed to in your ownership.
I don't think you should expect to factor in too great a price reduction however because after a reliable rebuild the car will be worth more and last longer - so there is an element of "bettermeant" in the valuation.
Also - if there was no bore scoring yet and it went on our Maintenance Plan - you would be covered against the full cost of the eventual rebuild (by paying only for the parts involved).
Baz
Hey baz, how much would a full 997 c2 rebuild be on the maintenance plan?However they are brilliant cars.
As long as you get the cylinders checked (or factor in an allowance for rebuilding the engine properly) and could afford the extra (if needed one day) it will be a great buy.
Not one to take a risk on however - so either price is right or bores are checked - but (and this is the important bit) even if the are OK at the moment - you must factor in a price reduction to allow for the rebuild to be somewhat contributed to in your ownership.
I don't think you should expect to factor in too great a price reduction however because after a reliable rebuild the car will be worth more and last longer - so there is an element of "bettermeant" in the valuation.
Also - if there was no bore scoring yet and it went on our Maintenance Plan - you would be covered against the full cost of the eventual rebuild (by paying only for the parts involved).
Baz
Mike
Hi all - thanks for the replies. I think I'm staying out of this one - price is fairly cheap (around £18k) but looks like it will need tyres and brakes at some point sooner rather than later and spec is not ideal (as well as the risk around engine problems.)
If I do go in for a 911 I'd probably rather spend a bit more and get an S with a better spec. Happy to factor in a rebuild cost if I was to go for a Porsche that hadn't already had one.
Not actively looking to change - was just one that popped up in a convenient location.
If I do go in for a 911 I'd probably rather spend a bit more and get an S with a better spec. Happy to factor in a rebuild cost if I was to go for a Porsche that hadn't already had one.
Not actively looking to change - was just one that popped up in a convenient location.
Hi Mikees,
I don't want to mislead anyone but a basic minimum rebuild under the plan that covered say just one cylinder where there were no other faults to fix (but including all new gaskets, seals, oil, filters etc) would work out at a minimum of around £1250.00 + Vat.
In practice few would limit their rebuild to that because we would not then continue to cover the other 5 cylinders (because our best advice would not have been followed during the rebuild and we are not going to do each cylinder in turn whenever it failed in the future for free labour etc). Because the labour is FOC most sensible owners would exploit the "effective discount" by having a thorough job done, all cylinders, bearings, IMS, decoke etc and this will cost a lot more (but then the whole engine would be covered once again including under the terms of our engine rebuild guarantees etc). We offer a huge range of rebuild options to try and provide what our customer wants and can afford from basic repairs through to top level renewals and replacements and the scope can often approach £9 or 10K (+Vat) when clutches are also found to be worn out, radiators perished and leaking etc. All the customers choice of course but we could not cover against an engine failure in the future after a rebuild if the coolant is leaking out etc.
It can be a complicated subject and we are not going to embark on working out all the different permutations on a speculative enquiry or post (don't have the time) but the labour is a huge part of the usual cost (see our video to realise how much work goes into a rebuild) and because the Plan also covers a similar range of repairs and replacements with free labour (like clutches, brakes, coolant pump etc) with this additional engine cover it works out as a great way to protect against a possible future engine failure.
Everyone on the Plan already is covered for engine failure at any future mileage - however - because so many now fail from crank bearings and cylinder cracks over 80K (Miles) we do not for example cover those for new owners wanting to come on the scheme with over 80K already covered but do still cover other engine failure causes.
For more information you can visit our web site (www.hartech.org) or phone - but we are really busy discussing live engine enquiries and rebuilds so find it increasingly difficult to spend a lot of time discussing "what ifs" and your best understanding is to accept that we are not out to mislead anyone, just have a very sensible and fair way of dealing with things (when they are needed) and rely on our excellent reputation.
To be eligible for the scheme you do need to pay for a thorough service check that includes boroscope checks etc but is anyway a very good way to start new ownership as it results in a comprehensive report on the condition of the car and good advice about what is likely to be needed in the future neatly prioritised. This may mean some things are specifically excluded from cover at the outset until they are brought up to scratch by us.
You pay monthly (no up front annual payment that may exceed your ownership) and it can be transferred (with an administration fee).
Baz
I don't want to mislead anyone but a basic minimum rebuild under the plan that covered say just one cylinder where there were no other faults to fix (but including all new gaskets, seals, oil, filters etc) would work out at a minimum of around £1250.00 + Vat.
In practice few would limit their rebuild to that because we would not then continue to cover the other 5 cylinders (because our best advice would not have been followed during the rebuild and we are not going to do each cylinder in turn whenever it failed in the future for free labour etc). Because the labour is FOC most sensible owners would exploit the "effective discount" by having a thorough job done, all cylinders, bearings, IMS, decoke etc and this will cost a lot more (but then the whole engine would be covered once again including under the terms of our engine rebuild guarantees etc). We offer a huge range of rebuild options to try and provide what our customer wants and can afford from basic repairs through to top level renewals and replacements and the scope can often approach £9 or 10K (+Vat) when clutches are also found to be worn out, radiators perished and leaking etc. All the customers choice of course but we could not cover against an engine failure in the future after a rebuild if the coolant is leaking out etc.
It can be a complicated subject and we are not going to embark on working out all the different permutations on a speculative enquiry or post (don't have the time) but the labour is a huge part of the usual cost (see our video to realise how much work goes into a rebuild) and because the Plan also covers a similar range of repairs and replacements with free labour (like clutches, brakes, coolant pump etc) with this additional engine cover it works out as a great way to protect against a possible future engine failure.
Everyone on the Plan already is covered for engine failure at any future mileage - however - because so many now fail from crank bearings and cylinder cracks over 80K (Miles) we do not for example cover those for new owners wanting to come on the scheme with over 80K already covered but do still cover other engine failure causes.
For more information you can visit our web site (www.hartech.org) or phone - but we are really busy discussing live engine enquiries and rebuilds so find it increasingly difficult to spend a lot of time discussing "what ifs" and your best understanding is to accept that we are not out to mislead anyone, just have a very sensible and fair way of dealing with things (when they are needed) and rely on our excellent reputation.
To be eligible for the scheme you do need to pay for a thorough service check that includes boroscope checks etc but is anyway a very good way to start new ownership as it results in a comprehensive report on the condition of the car and good advice about what is likely to be needed in the future neatly prioritised. This may mean some things are specifically excluded from cover at the outset until they are brought up to scratch by us.
You pay monthly (no up front annual payment that may exceed your ownership) and it can be transferred (with an administration fee).
Baz
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff