Supercharging a 944 S2

[danww]

I have a completely stock (I don't think the CS steering wheel and the oddments tray really count as modifications ...) 1989 944 S2 and considering possible performance upgrades (as well as total replacement with a 964 T2 or 993C2 or similar).

Does anyone have any experience of the various performance upgrades available for the 944? I've looked at the ProMax upgrades which seems to deliver about 5-10% and the 9M supercharger, which seems to deliver rather a lot more ... really I'd love the supercharger .

Clearly the cost relative to the original cost of the car is rather prohibitive; but compared with selling the 944 and buying a 993 it seems a bit more acceptable.

Has anyone on here got one?

I'm trying to avoid the turbo route and replacing one 944 with another; esp. as the one I have is really rather nice.

Finally if I do go this route will I have a massive insurance headache? Currently its garaged on a classic car, limited mileage policy.

Dan

[interloper]

With regards to insurance you had probably better check befor making radical changes to the car. Not many classic policys like any mods what so ever !

For a big increase in go "off the shelf" the 9M route seems like the most straight forward option. Straight forward tunning of the S2 lump is rare and won't give the big hike in power you get with forced induction.

[tony.t]

I owned an S2 for 5 years and eventually changed because i wasn't satisfied with the performance and there was no one doing any performance upgrades for this model.
I swapped for a 964 on the basis of the tuning available for that model.
Having said that if a supercharger had been available I would have probably gone that route instead as I thought the S2 was a great car. In hindsight that would have been a mistake as I prefer the 964 and even if the performance was the same as a modified S2 and the 964 was a more expensive option, I would still choose the 964.
For 964 you can read any contempory 911.

[944/68]

danww said:

Has anyone on here got one?

Yep, cheapest route to serious grunt, I've got a 968 engine but almost the same, std 993 not even close in terms of performance
The car is only for track so I cant say what it would be like everyday where as the 993 is the complete allrounder, the last true 911..........I'll get my coat

[danww]

944/68 said:

where as the 993 is the complete allrounder, the last true 911

I tend to agree, a 993 C2 coupe would probably be my first choice, and I could just squeeze a LHD one in under my budget.

However, it would cost a lot more than even the supercharger option; and with the supercharger there is the added benefit that I get to keep the 944, which is now looking very nice indeed after a bit of money spent on cosmetics.

Though I guess I'd have to also look into brakes and suspension upgrades at the same time. Even allowing for this and the original cost of the 944, I reckon I'd still be 5-8K ahead of the 993 cost.

[James s]

but when you sell one you will have a slightly older 993 which lots of people will want and when you sell the other you will have an 'over developed' 944 which will have a specialist market and almost certainly struggle to make the money it should.


so over 3 yrs or so the 993 may well be the cheaper bet. But if you love the 944 then it may be the best route - they are such differnt cars

[basil brush]

James s said:

...when you sell the other you will have an 'over developed' 944 which will have a specialist market and almost certainly struggle to make the money it should.

Or a standard 944S2 and a supercharger kit.

[AJLintern]

I'd like to do this, but can't justify spending the value of the car on a performance upgrade! Would certainly be cheaper to sell it and buy a turbo - then spend a lot less and get more performance Having said that, I generally prefer the smooth power delivery of a bigger capacity engine + supercharger...

[danww]

AJLintern said:

I'd like to do this, but can't justify spending the value of the car on a performance upgrade!

Its certainly rather mindboggling when you think about it. I'm coming to the conclusion its best not to think about it ... and just do it ...

But seriously maybe take it in stages:
1. suspension and brakes
2. ProMax upgrade
3. Supercharger

The ProMax upgrade would presumably be wasted when you get the supercharger.

[diver944]

I want to do this one day with my S2 too. Cost wise, you have to add the £6k conversion to the circa £6k value of the car and say what other Porsche can you buy for £12k with 350bhp and no lag.

As AJ said, the cheaper option is to get a 944 Turbo and spend £2k for a more powerful car, but not everyone likes the power delievry of a Turbo.

Speak to Jon Mitchell at www.9xx.co.uk I know he has 'plans' for a S/C kit for much less than the 9M version using a supercharger from another very common and easily obtained German car.

[danww]

diver944 said:

Speak to Jon Mitchell at www.9xx.co.uk I know he has 'plans' for a S/C kit for much less than the 9M version using a supercharger from another very common and easily obtained German car.

Thanks, I will do that. Though I'd be a little bit lary about being the first .

Anyone got suggestions about what would be appropriate preparatory upgrades to brakes and suspension?

Possibly a driver upgrade might also be in order.

[danww]

OK, so I've spoken to the insurers about adding a supercharger, and they said "No, problem, just don't mess with the bodywork"! Weird or what?

So the car is into RGA today for an MOT and at the same time I've asked them to start thinking about options for brakes and suspension, with a view to adding a S/C at some point.

[cuneus]

Listen to Paul. Forget the supercharger and buy a turbo, job done

[Thom]

cuneus said:

Forget the supercharger and buy a turbo, job done

The attractive part with a S/C is it's less likely to give troubles as mind-boggling as the turbo, isn't it ?
I'd opt for the solution that involves less plumbing, anyway.

[slim_boy_fat]

Thom said:

cuneus said: Forget the supercharger and buy a turbo, job done The attractive part with a S/C is it's less likely to give troubles as mind-boggling as the turbo, isn't it ? I'd opt for the solution that involves less plumbing, anyway.

Turbos are pretty solid. The way Porsche designed the turbo (on the other side of the engine to the manifold) has good and bad points, the good side being that the turbo case sees much lower temps and generally lasts alot longer.

I would think that the 16v S2 engine thats force inducted would have more chances of things going wrong.

If I didnt have to sell my turbo it would be getting a MAP/injectors and new turbo this year. Would be getting close to 400bhp with 400lbft. All for less than £2000.

The car has the big brakes and LSD and Koni suspention as standard....

Makes more sense to me to get a decent turbo rather than supercharging an S2

[Thom]

slim_boy_fat said:

Would be getting close to 400bhp with 400lbft.

Granted that a lot more TQ/HP can be gained out of turbo engine, but for how long ?
I also read rennlist and it seems to me very few people out there with vastly modified turbos actually use there cars on a regular basis the way most of us here in Europe seem to do (say 10k miles/year). Are you confident that a 944 turbo making 400bhp & 400lbs/ft will be as reliable and troublefree as a S/C S2 ? Food for thought.
It seems to me there is little feedback on actual reliability of any set up, I think a lot of modified 944 turbo owners spend quite a lot in preventive maintenance, at least quite more than what they're willing to admit.

>> Edited by Thom on Thursday 7th April 17:10

[cuneus]

I think they are a little more extreme across the pond

300 bhp turbos are reliable day in day out

400 bhp is really a question of BIG turbo and giving it enough fuel. Downside is the lag and the ferocious hike in torque when it does spool up, nothing to OMFG in a second

>> Edited by cuneus on Thursday 7th April 19:56

[AJLintern]

That's still pretty low compared to some Skylines and Supras though isn't it? Or do they suffer the same reliability issues? They are around the same capacity I think 2.6/3.0? so should be able to give similar performance you'd have thought

[tony.t]

AJLintern said:

That's still pretty low compared to some Skylines and Supras though isn't it? Or do they suffer the same reliability issues? They are around the same capacity I think 2.6/3.0? so should be able to give similar performance you'd have thought

Dyno numbers and road numbers for torque/hp are often completely different. With big turbos that generate big numbers on the dyno the road figures are often much lower as inlet temps rocket and the engines close down to prevent detonation.

[cuneus]

tony.t said:

Dyno numbers and road numbers for torque/hp are often completely different. With big turbos that generate big numbers on the dyno the road figures are often much lower as inlet temps rocket and the engines close down to prevent detonation.

Huh ?