Discussion
3 weeks ago I picked up an Elise S2, with 38k on the clock.
Until this weekend it was fine - lots of 1-3 hours journeys, plus a couple of 4-5 hour ones and a 7 hour one. Most of them spent on A and B roads having a blast, all of them passed without incident.
Noticed a fizzing noise on Saturday when I parked up and opened the engine cover - seemed to be coming from the coolant header tank. The cap was on tightly and I couldn't see anything - no steam, no bubbling round joints - first alarm bells ringing though.
Car drove OK on Sun - temp OK, nothing weird, but again there was the fizzing noise.
Packing boot on Mon and noticed header tank was empty. Panic.
Filled up with 1 litre of water and set off slowly - drove up some mega hills in the Lake District and sat happily at <90°C, then after 45 mins or so the temp went ape - jumped up 5°C at a time and hovered around 113 or 114, then just as quickly went back down to 90-ish.
Stopped, checked coolant levels. Slightly lower than when I'd filled it in the morning, but thought that might have been because of the pressure. Noticed one of the jubilee clips wasn't completely tight, so tightened it but could still hear fizzing.
To cut a long story short, the temp spent the day jumping rapidly high then going back to normal, I added another litre of water over the course of the day. Eventually it all went titsup - steam piling out of the pressure release valve on the header tank and the car on the back of an AA truck.
No mayo in the oil, nothing but clear blue liquid when there last was any to be seen in the header tank.
Could it just be the cap? Or a leak in the coolant which created an airlock in the system when I refilled it? Or have I just bought the early stages of HGF?
The car is still under warranty so what do I ask the (non-Lotus) dealer to do? Simply replace the coolant cap? Bleed and refill the coolant plus pressure-test when cold and then hot? Would it be safer to pay for a Lotus dealer to look at it?
Until this weekend it was fine - lots of 1-3 hours journeys, plus a couple of 4-5 hour ones and a 7 hour one. Most of them spent on A and B roads having a blast, all of them passed without incident.
Noticed a fizzing noise on Saturday when I parked up and opened the engine cover - seemed to be coming from the coolant header tank. The cap was on tightly and I couldn't see anything - no steam, no bubbling round joints - first alarm bells ringing though.
Car drove OK on Sun - temp OK, nothing weird, but again there was the fizzing noise.
Packing boot on Mon and noticed header tank was empty. Panic.
Filled up with 1 litre of water and set off slowly - drove up some mega hills in the Lake District and sat happily at <90°C, then after 45 mins or so the temp went ape - jumped up 5°C at a time and hovered around 113 or 114, then just as quickly went back down to 90-ish.
Stopped, checked coolant levels. Slightly lower than when I'd filled it in the morning, but thought that might have been because of the pressure. Noticed one of the jubilee clips wasn't completely tight, so tightened it but could still hear fizzing.
To cut a long story short, the temp spent the day jumping rapidly high then going back to normal, I added another litre of water over the course of the day. Eventually it all went titsup - steam piling out of the pressure release valve on the header tank and the car on the back of an AA truck.
No mayo in the oil, nothing but clear blue liquid when there last was any to be seen in the header tank.
Could it just be the cap? Or a leak in the coolant which created an airlock in the system when I refilled it? Or have I just bought the early stages of HGF?
The car is still under warranty so what do I ask the (non-Lotus) dealer to do? Simply replace the coolant cap? Bleed and refill the coolant plus pressure-test when cold and then hot? Would it be safer to pay for a Lotus dealer to look at it?
Sounds like a leaky cap (fizzing) and also a wonky Stack temp indicator probe(the brown one or the blue one cant remember which). Change the cap and stack sensorprobe and see what happens.
The Stack probe only feeds info to the stack and other one controls the stat. If the temps are jumping around erraticly then its the Stack one.
It sounds like you have been hit by two problems at once.
PS whats the exhaust look like? Any steam /white smoke out of that?
>> Edited by LRdriver II on Thursday 31st March 00:03
The Stack probe only feeds info to the stack and other one controls the stat. If the temps are jumping around erraticly then its the Stack one.
It sounds like you have been hit by two problems at once.
PS whats the exhaust look like? Any steam /white smoke out of that?
>> Edited by LRdriver II on Thursday 31st March 00:03
Think its probably just the cap. If the cap is leaking the sytem won't be pressurised, thus reducing the boiling point of the coolant and causing above problems. Don't think there's anything wrong with the temperature sender.
I would start with the pressure cap then move on to bleeding the system if that doesn't fix it.
HTH
Daniel
I would start with the pressure cap then move on to bleeding the system if that doesn't fix it.
HTH
Daniel
I was just beginning to feel encouraged by your comments when I remembered a cloud of (what I thought was) white smoke which appeared after I'd stopped the car for lunch.
It was parked facing down a steep hill for maybe 45mins or an hour. It seemed fine when I started the engine, but as soon as I revved it up and tried reversing up the hill the cloud of whatever it was worried me enough to turn off and take a look at the engine.
Don't know much about this stuff, but I'm guessing that if steam was in the exhaust then the coolant is getting where it shouldn't and HGF is the probably cause...?
It was parked facing down a steep hill for maybe 45mins or an hour. It seemed fine when I started the engine, but as soon as I revved it up and tried reversing up the hill the cloud of whatever it was worried me enough to turn off and take a look at the engine.
Don't know much about this stuff, but I'm guessing that if steam was in the exhaust then the coolant is getting where it shouldn't and HGF is the probably cause...?
Bubbles in the header tank can be a symptom of head gasket failure, and the cloud of steam you mention doesn't sound promising.
However...all cars steam a little on startup (water is a by-product of the combustion process and until the engine is up to temperature, it comes out as steam - particularly in cool weather). The Elise seems to be a little worse than usual cars (possibly because it has a mid engine and therefore a shorter exhaust than usual. So, you may be worrying about the steam unneccesarily.
Bottom line is that it is easy to check for combustion gasses in the coolant (which are a sure and certain sign of HGF) by using a chemical tester kit. A few garages keep these (you may need to ring round to find one) and will do the test cheaply - last time I had it done, about 5 years ago, it was a tenner. You can also but a kit to do the test yourself: www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8682
...having said all which, if the car is under warranty, let the dealer sort it!
Edited to add...other thing that might be worth checking is that the electric fan is cutting in on the radiator. Because they are mounted horizontally where rain can run down onto them, these have a habit of seizing, which will of course mean that the car will overheat queuing in traffic or climbing slow, steep, hills in the Lake District! Can be checked by
removing the appropriate relay and bridging the high-current terminals with a bit of wire - if the fan doesn't come on instantly and spin down slowly when the current is removed, you have a problem.
>> Edited by Martin_S on Thursday 31st March 09:43
However...all cars steam a little on startup (water is a by-product of the combustion process and until the engine is up to temperature, it comes out as steam - particularly in cool weather). The Elise seems to be a little worse than usual cars (possibly because it has a mid engine and therefore a shorter exhaust than usual. So, you may be worrying about the steam unneccesarily.
Bottom line is that it is easy to check for combustion gasses in the coolant (which are a sure and certain sign of HGF) by using a chemical tester kit. A few garages keep these (you may need to ring round to find one) and will do the test cheaply - last time I had it done, about 5 years ago, it was a tenner. You can also but a kit to do the test yourself: www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8682
...having said all which, if the car is under warranty, let the dealer sort it!
Edited to add...other thing that might be worth checking is that the electric fan is cutting in on the radiator. Because they are mounted horizontally where rain can run down onto them, these have a habit of seizing, which will of course mean that the car will overheat queuing in traffic or climbing slow, steep, hills in the Lake District! Can be checked by
removing the appropriate relay and bridging the high-current terminals with a bit of wire - if the fan doesn't come on instantly and spin down slowly when the current is removed, you have a problem.
>> Edited by Martin_S on Thursday 31st March 09:43
What I was thinking of was a full smoke screen "007" stylee behind the car.. Basically means that the coolant is ending up in the combustion chamber and in my case was a cracked liner accompanied by alot of clanking noise as the piston tried to kill itself.
A little white smoke is normal on start up though..
A little white smoke is normal on start up though..
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