So what's wrong with a 964?
Discussion
I'm looking at spending around £10-12k on a 911. I've always had a soft spot for the original '80-'83 SC and I've found quite a few in varying states that are in (or below) this price range. I've also noticed that for not much more (or the same with a bit of haggling), I can get a '90 or '91 964. My question is, what is wrong with them? Why can I get a car that is the best part of 10 years newer for virtually the same money?
quite right, Iguana. good starter article.
there is nothing wrong with 964s per se. like all 12-16 year old cars it is a mistake to compare with modern cars, a mistake to neglect thorough research and a mistake to buy a pretty one without getting a decent inspection. It will have foibles, it will probably be in rather garish colours compared to modern (but who wants to see another seal grey 911 for gods sake) and it will look dated on the inside. it will also, if you get a good one, make you smile every single day.
964 vs 911sc similar to 996 vs 993. look how the comparative depreciations have gone on those two, with 993s regularly commanding more than similar mileage/spec 996s. prejudice, pub banter, ill formed opinion, all to blame. 964 is a great car. just do your homework first and, like you would on an old house, get a good survey.
there is nothing wrong with 964s per se. like all 12-16 year old cars it is a mistake to compare with modern cars, a mistake to neglect thorough research and a mistake to buy a pretty one without getting a decent inspection. It will have foibles, it will probably be in rather garish colours compared to modern (but who wants to see another seal grey 911 for gods sake) and it will look dated on the inside. it will also, if you get a good one, make you smile every single day.
964 vs 911sc similar to 996 vs 993. look how the comparative depreciations have gone on those two, with 993s regularly commanding more than similar mileage/spec 996s. prejudice, pub banter, ill formed opinion, all to blame. 964 is a great car. just do your homework first and, like you would on an old house, get a good survey.
ANY 911 in good serviceable condition, without rust, not in need of repair, hits a base price of about 10k GBP in today's market.
The 964 isn't that fashionable these days (you can get a 996 for 20k if you look hard enough) and is probably at its lowest ebb - the base 911 price.
People buy older 911s because of character; maybe they had a 3.2 on their duvet cover when they were a nipper or they love the old retro looks of a 2.2/2.4/2.7. Remember that the good ones have a lot of money invested in them and this keeps the prices of the serviceable ones high. The old non-serviceable ones are available from 4k upwards in Autotrader classics section
People buy the 964 because it is newer than the retro 911s, more modern to drive and more advanced technically. Personally, I think it is a big improvement in driving feel over a 3.2. However, the 964 is more complicated and can be more expensive to run. A bad 964 will cost far more than a sorted classic to run. But conversely, a good 964 will be economical to run and shouldn't suffer from as many age-related problems.
Horses for courses, but the 964 is far from being a lemon. I actually think it's one of the best Porsches they have made
The 964 isn't that fashionable these days (you can get a 996 for 20k if you look hard enough) and is probably at its lowest ebb - the base 911 price.
People buy older 911s because of character; maybe they had a 3.2 on their duvet cover when they were a nipper or they love the old retro looks of a 2.2/2.4/2.7. Remember that the good ones have a lot of money invested in them and this keeps the prices of the serviceable ones high. The old non-serviceable ones are available from 4k upwards in Autotrader classics section
People buy the 964 because it is newer than the retro 911s, more modern to drive and more advanced technically. Personally, I think it is a big improvement in driving feel over a 3.2. However, the 964 is more complicated and can be more expensive to run. A bad 964 will cost far more than a sorted classic to run. But conversely, a good 964 will be economical to run and shouldn't suffer from as many age-related problems.
Horses for courses, but the 964 is far from being a lemon. I actually think it's one of the best Porsches they have made
All IMHO....
The only garish coloured 964s you'll ever see are RSs (and I love garish colours!).
A 964 drives totally differently (for which read more sophisticated in general feel) to its predecessors, which actually makes it a better day to day car.
The interior of a 964 is no more old fashioned than that of a 993 for obvious reasons.
964s rust just as well as their predecessors. For some reason, all the doggy ones I've seen have manifested the dreaded tin worm around the driver's side scuttle.
I've never got round to reading Alex's article until now. It's well researched, well written and 100% accurate - good enough to use as the sole basis for buying a 964 IMHO.
Like Dom, I think 964s can be a bit of a bargain, provided that the purchaser isn't suckered into paying over the odds for one. As the price of late 3.2s continues to rise, so the 964 will become a tempting choice for those seeking a more "classic" 911.
The downer for the 964 is that the unloved Targa looks seriously horrible in 964 guise.
The only garish coloured 964s you'll ever see are RSs (and I love garish colours!).
A 964 drives totally differently (for which read more sophisticated in general feel) to its predecessors, which actually makes it a better day to day car.
The interior of a 964 is no more old fashioned than that of a 993 for obvious reasons.
964s rust just as well as their predecessors. For some reason, all the doggy ones I've seen have manifested the dreaded tin worm around the driver's side scuttle.
I've never got round to reading Alex's article until now. It's well researched, well written and 100% accurate - good enough to use as the sole basis for buying a 964 IMHO.
Like Dom, I think 964s can be a bit of a bargain, provided that the purchaser isn't suckered into paying over the odds for one. As the price of late 3.2s continues to rise, so the 964 will become a tempting choice for those seeking a more "classic" 911.
The downer for the 964 is that the unloved Targa looks seriously horrible in 964 guise.
Nothing - they are great. I cam across my old one a few months ago with 160k on the cloch. Yes its true tha the clutch and DMF are a bit expensive but most have been done by now as with top end rebuilds. Just follow the usual rules - get an inspection if you don't know the car and have fun/. I really loved mine.
As has been said previously - Nowt!
Mine's got 150K on the clock and its still ace. My 1st Porsche and still my favourite.
Servicing has been dead cheap over the last 3 years and its never let me down once. Reckon as long as you get one which has been looked after and serviced on time etc oyu should have no problems. They're pretty economical to boot too.
Check out PH classifieds and the smaller specialists as they often sell cars they've serviced for customers.
Bod
Mine's got 150K on the clock and its still ace. My 1st Porsche and still my favourite.
Servicing has been dead cheap over the last 3 years and its never let me down once. Reckon as long as you get one which has been looked after and serviced on time etc oyu should have no problems. They're pretty economical to boot too.
Check out PH classifieds and the smaller specialists as they often sell cars they've serviced for customers.
Bod
Thanks for all the replies. I'm still sticking with my earlier decision of an SC as I prefer the design (must be a sign of getting old, I consider car design peaked in the mid-'80s and has gone downhill since). I don't want something that drives like a modern car, I've got a company car for that! I'd rather have something to put the fun back into life (to add to my partners 944 and my Yamaha XJ600S!).
I was merely wondering why the prices for 964s had dropped as low. I appreciate that the SC is now regarded as a classic and prices are unlikely to fall any lower. I just assumed that a newer, more modern Porsche would still command a higher price, unless there was a reason why they were less sort after. From the replies, obviously not and I would think they are likely to start to rise in value as they become regarded less as a modern Porsche and more as a classic.
I was merely wondering why the prices for 964s had dropped as low. I appreciate that the SC is now regarded as a classic and prices are unlikely to fall any lower. I just assumed that a newer, more modern Porsche would still command a higher price, unless there was a reason why they were less sort after. From the replies, obviously not and I would think they are likely to start to rise in value as they become regarded less as a modern Porsche and more as a classic.
, you are in serious danger of becoming a serial poster! 
, the Pennines are a calling
Leo. You have chosen the only colour IMHO that makes a Targa look good in a 964...and no, I'm not backpeddaling here...your car does look nice.
On the SC issue - IMHO there are several classic impact bumper 911s - the 2.7 Carrera - impact bumpered version of the classic 2.7 RS, the 3.0 Carrera (but the engine is a known weak point on these cars, being a halfway house to the developed SC unit) and the 930 turbo (5 speed preferably). The post 1986 3.2 will also join that list, I predict.
A late SC or early 3.2? neither is significantly better than the other really - 27 bhp difference, trim detailing, but that's about all. But of course most buyers will want the 3.2, so faced with a 3.2 and SC at the same money in the same condition, I'd buy the former.
On the SC issue - IMHO there are several classic impact bumper 911s - the 2.7 Carrera - impact bumpered version of the classic 2.7 RS, the 3.0 Carrera (but the engine is a known weak point on these cars, being a halfway house to the developed SC unit) and the 930 turbo (5 speed preferably). The post 1986 3.2 will also join that list, I predict.
A late SC or early 3.2? neither is significantly better than the other really - 27 bhp difference, trim detailing, but that's about all. But of course most buyers will want the 3.2, so faced with a 3.2 and SC at the same money in the same condition, I'd buy the former.
rubystone said:
I've never got round to reading Alex's article until now. It's well researched, well written and 100% accurate - good enough to use as the sole basis for buying a 964 IMHO.
Blimey I'm overcome with emotion at the praise, only thing is I wrote that back in 2002, so good to see you rushed to read it then ruby
Anyway I don't 'just' come on here to take the pi$$ out of Dom & the mythical RS, sometimes some useful info does occasionally creep out...
rubystone said:
A late SC or early 3.2? neither is significantly better than the other really - 27 bhp difference, trim detailing, but that's about all. But of course most buyers will want the 3.2, so faced with a 3.2 and SC at the same money in the same condition, I'd buy the former.
LOL, the RS exists. I even heard it running the other day. The sound of a decatted 285bhp normally aspirated 3.6 reminded me why I like 964s so much.
As for SC vs 3.2, I'd go for the 3.2 every time. There were lots of tiny improvements that may not be immediately obvious, from an improved galvanisation programme to better engine management. The 3.2 improved throughout its life as well, so I'd also go as late as possible. LHD shouldn't scare you - and the LHD ones got the model year improvements earlier than UK cars. I personally much prefer the G50 gearboxed cars from 1987 on. Never liked the 915 box as it had a three foot gear throw like my Mum's old Metro, and graunched like a bugger getting into first unless the car was static
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