Cables - can you tell the difference?
Discussion
Analogue Hifi - so essentially a set of rca's and speaker wires I've always tried to buy relatively decent cables. Not the £1,000 stuff but what looks like well made and decent branded stuff like chord and qed. I also bought a set or two of mains conditioners but if I'm honest I couldn't tell any difference whatsoever. As for the speaker cables and rca's I'm pretty sure I hear more of the sound.
For my av set up I recently changed to chord. If I'm honest if anything I can't tell the difference between these hdmi cables and what came free in the sky box for example. I have need of a 10 metre run and here bar a very expensive cable, I lose the 4k signal. So this kind of goes with everything I read about digital cables and short runs. I can't tell if there's a better picture or better sound.
I'm currently using tidal a lot and am now looking at the USB cables. Again the wisdom is that it's just a digital signal so the cheap printer cable is fine. I'm going to set this up as it's very easy to do and try and hear a difference between the free cable that I will just disconnect from my printer and an audioquest cinnamon or carbon cable that I'm going to buy to satisfy my own curiousty.
What are people's experiences of upgraded cables?
For my av set up I recently changed to chord. If I'm honest if anything I can't tell the difference between these hdmi cables and what came free in the sky box for example. I have need of a 10 metre run and here bar a very expensive cable, I lose the 4k signal. So this kind of goes with everything I read about digital cables and short runs. I can't tell if there's a better picture or better sound.
I'm currently using tidal a lot and am now looking at the USB cables. Again the wisdom is that it's just a digital signal so the cheap printer cable is fine. I'm going to set this up as it's very easy to do and try and hear a difference between the free cable that I will just disconnect from my printer and an audioquest cinnamon or carbon cable that I'm going to buy to satisfy my own curiousty.
What are people's experiences of upgraded cables?
RedTrident said:
Analogue Hifi - so essentially a set of rca's and speaker wires I've always tried to buy relatively decent cables. Not the £1,000 stuff but what looks like well made and decent branded stuff like chord and qed. I also bought a set or two of mains conditioners but if I'm honest I couldn't tell any difference whatsoever. As for the speaker cables and rca's I'm pretty sure I hear more of the sound.
For my av set up I recently changed to chord. If I'm honest if anything I can't tell the difference between these hdmi cables and what came free in the sky box for example. I have need of a 10 metre run and here bar a very expensive cable, I lose the 4k signal. So this kind of goes with everything I read about digital cables and short runs. I can't tell if there's a better picture or better sound.
I'm currently using tidal a lot and am now looking at the USB cables. Again the wisdom is that it's just a digital signal so the cheap printer cable is fine. I'm going to set this up as it's very easy to do and try and hear a difference between the free cable that I will just disconnect from my printer and an audioquest cinnamon or carbon cable that I'm going to buy to satisfy my own curiousty.
What are people's experiences of upgraded cables?
Snake oil, utter waste of money.For my av set up I recently changed to chord. If I'm honest if anything I can't tell the difference between these hdmi cables and what came free in the sky box for example. I have need of a 10 metre run and here bar a very expensive cable, I lose the 4k signal. So this kind of goes with everything I read about digital cables and short runs. I can't tell if there's a better picture or better sound.
I'm currently using tidal a lot and am now looking at the USB cables. Again the wisdom is that it's just a digital signal so the cheap printer cable is fine. I'm going to set this up as it's very easy to do and try and hear a difference between the free cable that I will just disconnect from my printer and an audioquest cinnamon or carbon cable that I'm going to buy to satisfy my own curiousty.
What are people's experiences of upgraded cables?
http://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile-deathmatch-mo...
My HDMI cable for 4k cost around £3.50. Short run so did not need the super duper good stuff at £4.50.
Not needed to upgrade as such, just made sure I had the "High Speed"certification.
http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/finding_right_cable.a...
Not needed to upgrade as such, just made sure I had the "High Speed"certification.
http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/finding_right_cable.a...
Dromedary66 said:
I couldn't tell the difference on a short hdmi run, either in picture quality or sound. On the 10 metre run I definitely lose the 4k output. Regarding analogue with the speaker wires and rca leads, I'm not so sure, I believe I can tell a difference.
I'm genuinely curious with the usb cable and its a very easy swap on the back of my amp. Every 'intelligent' part of me says that as long as the cheap lead is fit for purpose (so working as it should be), there should be zero difference between what I have taken off my printer and this Audioquest lead.
I don't spend a fortune on hifi/av equipment but what I have isn't bargain basement. I will report back. I'm going to listen to each one for a week and decide if I can hear a difference. Then I'm going to blind test them at least a dozen times. I'm starting from a point of scepticism regarding these digital connections.
RedTrident said:
On the 10 metre run I definitely lose the 4k output.
But that's just due to physics; as the cable gets longer the losses & capacitance goes up & eventually there's not enough signal for the receiver to recover. A better made (probably more expensive) cable is likely to work better (ie lower losses) so it's not surprising that it will work over a longer distance. That's perfectly reasonable, although there's a limit to the working length for any passive cable. RedTrident said:
I'm going to listen to each one for a week and decide if I can hear a difference. Then I'm going to blind test them at least a dozen times. I'm starting from a point of scepticism regarding these digital connections.
I don't know how you're going to blind test them but you need to get someone else to make the change AND sometimes NOT make a change. Just knowing a change has been made can influence what you think you are hearing.Cables do make a difference but not at all worth what some are sold for, a simple test for a HIFI is to swap only one of the RCA interconnects at a time and have a listen and see if you notice anything. for HDMI and digital cables the main areas you will notice are in the dark areas of the image as this is less noticeable when not error free, the harder the error correction needs to work the less information the screen receives but you would only notice this on a good display really and not the average domestic units. so basically if it works it doesn't mean its working well but it is within the error corrections ability to fix and make an image. there is a level where it gets very silly in price and the gains are tiny if at all, so don't get the cheap but the next step up would give you the biggest gains generally.
The best cable to swap is the ring/spur . Given the chance I have fitted a separate "garage" type consumer and run a ring from that .So I get no problems from the main consumer etc .Cheap. Worked well with valve gear . I have also "swapped" interconnects and people have not noticed until months later when told. Kinda upsets them !
Power Junkie said:
Cables do make a difference but not at all worth what some are sold for, a simple test for a HIFI is to swap only one of the RCA interconnects at a time and have a listen and see if you notice anything. for HDMI and digital cables the main areas you will notice are in the dark areas of the image as this is less noticeable when not error free, the harder the error correction needs to work the less information the screen receives but you would only notice this on a good display really and not the average domestic units. so basically if it works it doesn't mean its working well but it is within the error corrections ability to fix and make an image. there is a level where it gets very silly in price and the gains are tiny if at all, so don't get the cheap but the next step up would give you the biggest gains generally.
Why would any errors show up more in the dark areas?If the error correction isn't re-creating the original signal it's not correcting & it's up to the receiving device to decide what to do next, say by repeating the previous sample. It doesn't "work harder" either, it's just a mathematical process to recalculate the pixel values if the checksum fails & the circuitry needs to make these checksum calculations anyway.
Power Junkie said:
Cables do make a difference
Analog cables, yes. Digital, err, not really.http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tvs-entertainment/7...
Basically the worst possible HDMI cable that still met the HDMI spec would have just one single bit error per second on HD video (so four on 4K)
That's before error correction/concealment kick in, which means that your "error" pixel would at worst just get the colour that's the average of its immediate neighbours. You Are Not Going To See It.
silentbrown said:
RedTrident said:
I'm starting from a point of scepticism regarding these digital connections.
Not sure that's right. If you're even considering those cables you're starting from a point of serious gullibility. 
We'll find out soon enough. I've checked Amazon's return policy and I've ordered the audioquest carbon usb. I've put together a playlist of 10 songs and I'll set out the parameters of the experiment tonight. I'll share, if nothing else it will be something to do.
RedTrident said:
I've heard speaker cables from the very cheap stuff to something like QED and Chord. I genuinely believed I could tell a difference.
That's plausible, but many people can't tell a difference.USB, on the other hand, is different. Because it's packetized rather than bit-for-bit real time, jitter and timing are non-issues. You'll either get an correct packet or a wrong one. The maximum allowed BER (Bit Error Rate) for USB 3 is 1 in 10^12. Any USB 3-compliant system should achieve that.
Let's assume Stereo 192KHz Audio at 24 bit. About 10 megabits/second, or 1 x 10^7. So the very worst cable that meets USB spec will give you one error in 10^5 (or 100,000) seconds. Or one error every 27 hours. Happy Listening!
http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/whitepapers/USB...
Depends on what you're doing but if you look at money-no-object studio production kit you won't see anything particularly special most of the time, even the stuff that comes fully calibrated and characterised with printouts of the tests.
The digital audio kit I used to use had fibre interconnects rather than copper, but a lot of that was ADAT and ran on the cheapest plastic SPDIF cables you'd get from a Christmas cracker. Even the really chunky stuff (like MADI) was only bog cheap glass you'd use on any old bit of IT kit.
Anything half-decent will usually work OK, there's room for high-end interconnects but not required in almost any home install you're likely to see.
The digital audio kit I used to use had fibre interconnects rather than copper, but a lot of that was ADAT and ran on the cheapest plastic SPDIF cables you'd get from a Christmas cracker. Even the really chunky stuff (like MADI) was only bog cheap glass you'd use on any old bit of IT kit.
Anything half-decent will usually work OK, there's room for high-end interconnects but not required in almost any home install you're likely to see.
JonChalk said:
RedTrident said:
On the 10 metre run I definitely lose the 4k output.
Shielded or unshielded? it's possible the longer run means greater chance of picking up interference from somewhere?Ultra HDTV Premium 4K HDMI Cable 10 Meters | HDMI 2.0b, 4K at full 60Hz, 18Gbps, HDR, 3D
I didn't think it was bad value at under £30 for a 10 metre run. It works most of the time and only really fails on the PS4 where it couldn't detect the Resolution to [2160P - YUV420] or [2160p- RGB] and shows up as 1080p. Strange though as when switched to the amazon box it plays all their 4K stuff fine. Never quite figured it.
I'm moving home soon so the hdmi lead I end up using will be buried. The only cable I've come across that I've read works properly over this distance is a fibre hdmi cable that costs a considerable amount more.
I can't tell the difference on the the analogue stuff I've upgraded (using not massively expensive Linn K20 speaker cable instead of cheapy no-name stuff, and improved interconnects between source and amp) - and there is no difference in digital cables providing they comply with the appropriate specification/standard.
Reading reviews of USB cables online or in hi-fi magazines is (to use one of their favourite phrases) revelatory. If they can lie and bulls
t to this extent about something like this, how can you trust anything else they say?
e.g. from The Absolute Sound:
"
AudioQuest Diamond
This über-expensive USB cable is simply revelatory in its combination of ease and refinement on one hand, and resolution and transparency on the other. Although capable of resolving the finest detail, Diamond USB has a relaxed quality that fosters deep musical involvement.
or
AudioQuest Carbon
the Carbon is neutral without sounding bleached, dynamic without sounding piercing, detailed without sounding analytical.
"
Reading reviews of USB cables online or in hi-fi magazines is (to use one of their favourite phrases) revelatory. If they can lie and bulls
t to this extent about something like this, how can you trust anything else they say? e.g. from The Absolute Sound:
"
AudioQuest Diamond
This über-expensive USB cable is simply revelatory in its combination of ease and refinement on one hand, and resolution and transparency on the other. Although capable of resolving the finest detail, Diamond USB has a relaxed quality that fosters deep musical involvement.
or
AudioQuest Carbon
the Carbon is neutral without sounding bleached, dynamic without sounding piercing, detailed without sounding analytical.
"
I genuinely can tell the difference on the analogue stuff though my improvements have been from whatever I had lying around. I have no idea what the difference would then be from a £10 metre speaker wire to say £50 or £100 a metre.
Anyway. Just nipped into Class Olsen and bought a usb lead for £8.99. The audioquest one arrives tomorrow that cost the best part of £150.
Curiousty and time on my hands along with a very simple set up I can test this on has got me finally testing this out.
All I'll be using is a amp with a built in Dac connected to a set of bookshelf speakers with less than a metre of speaker wire between the speakers and the amp. This USB lead will be connected to my mac.
Anyway. Just nipped into Class Olsen and bought a usb lead for £8.99. The audioquest one arrives tomorrow that cost the best part of £150.
Curiousty and time on my hands along with a very simple set up I can test this on has got me finally testing this out.
All I'll be using is a amp with a built in Dac connected to a set of bookshelf speakers with less than a metre of speaker wire between the speakers and the amp. This USB lead will be connected to my mac.
RedTrident said:
I genuinely can tell the difference on the analogue stuff though my improvements have been from whatever I had lying around. I have no idea what the difference would then be from a £10 metre speaker wire to say £50 or £100 a metre.
Anyway. Just nipped into Class Olsen and bought a usb lead for £8.99. The audioquest one arrives tomorrow that cost the best part of £150.
Curiousty and time on my hands along with a very simple set up I can test this on has got me finally testing this out.
All I'll be using is a amp with a built in Dac connected to a set of bookshelf speakers with less than a metre of speaker wire between the speakers and the amp. This USB lead will be connected to my mac.
Macbook or mac? Just checking you are aware the headphone socket on the former doubles as an optical output.Anyway. Just nipped into Class Olsen and bought a usb lead for £8.99. The audioquest one arrives tomorrow that cost the best part of £150.
Curiousty and time on my hands along with a very simple set up I can test this on has got me finally testing this out.
All I'll be using is a amp with a built in Dac connected to a set of bookshelf speakers with less than a metre of speaker wire between the speakers and the amp. This USB lead will be connected to my mac.
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