Treating people fairly
Discussion
There's a team of half a dozen fairly young people on a high pressure project and getting pretty demoralised. Not least because there's a manager they deal with who is widely regarded as a bit of a prat and tries to act like Malcolm Tucker.
After one largely unjustified roasting from this guy, the whole team was upset and one of them actually got a bit tearful. There's now a suggestion that the tears mean she can't cope and should be taken off the team, a potentially career damaging move for her. Most people familiar with the situation reckon that judging from her work she's coping just as well with the pressure as everyone else so taking her off the team would be unfair. On the other hand suggesting that she is the only one in tears not because she is any less resilient but because she's the only girl and girls show their feelings differently from boys would risk the wrath of our politically correct HR dept.
How best to defend her?
After one largely unjustified roasting from this guy, the whole team was upset and one of them actually got a bit tearful. There's now a suggestion that the tears mean she can't cope and should be taken off the team, a potentially career damaging move for her. Most people familiar with the situation reckon that judging from her work she's coping just as well with the pressure as everyone else so taking her off the team would be unfair. On the other hand suggesting that she is the only one in tears not because she is any less resilient but because she's the only girl and girls show their feelings differently from boys would risk the wrath of our politically correct HR dept.
How best to defend her?
Monkeylegend said:
Unless you are part of the project team and received the same telling off you will make her case worse if you try to get involved, it will be seen as weakness on her part allowing somebody else to fight her battles for her.
Is it your wife/partner you are talking about?
I am on the same project and have been asked for my opinion, which is the only reason I'm asking the question. There is no question of fighting her battle for her, but if I'm directly asked 'is she incapable?' and I think she's OK then I'll say so. Is it your wife/partner you are talking about?
ks would be a good start.Dr Jekyll said:
Monkeylegend said:
Unless you are part of the project team and received the same telling off you will make her case worse if you try to get involved, it will be seen as weakness on her part allowing somebody else to fight her battles for her.
Is it your wife/partner you are talking about?
I am on the same project and have been asked for my opinion, which is the only reason I'm asking the question. There is no question of fighting her battle for her, but if I'm directly asked 'is she incapable?' and I think she's OK then I'll say so. Is it your wife/partner you are talking about?
mr mac i said:
Formal grievance to this muppets line manager?
Most places have a bullying and harassment policy, takes guts to stand up and get it sorted but if the whole team feel that way then there is clearly a problem......
Not a good idea without having intel on how pally the line manager is with the people in HR and/or further up the managerial tree. These things have a nasty habit of backfiring.Most places have a bullying and harassment policy, takes guts to stand up and get it sorted but if the whole team feel that way then there is clearly a problem......
I've been in this situation before.
I went two levels higher than him to the director (of that section) and said I wanted an informal chat about issues in his team.
I refused to give names of who was being treated unfairly, but just said that this manager was not doing a gret job, morale was down and the department was suffering.
Only a good idea to do this if you are very certain it will not impact your own career unfortunately. Ended up well for everyone in my situation. managers were cycled not too long after.
edit: Forgot to add, I did in fact aproach the bloke first. this is a must.
I went two levels higher than him to the director (of that section) and said I wanted an informal chat about issues in his team.
I refused to give names of who was being treated unfairly, but just said that this manager was not doing a gret job, morale was down and the department was suffering.
Only a good idea to do this if you are very certain it will not impact your own career unfortunately. Ended up well for everyone in my situation. managers were cycled not too long after.
edit: Forgot to add, I did in fact aproach the bloke first. this is a must.
Edited by Efbe on Monday 8th May 18:34
I'd speak to the manager first to offer him some feedback about his management style, as this is likely to have the best impact if the feedback is positioned correctly.
Going above his head at this point will not put you in good light.
And the lass needs to man up, you can't treat women any different to men irrespective if they get a bit teary every now and again.
Going above his head at this point will not put you in good light.
And the lass needs to man up, you can't treat women any different to men irrespective if they get a bit teary every now and again.
p4cks said:
I'd speak to the manager first to offer him some feedback about his management style, as this is likely to have the best impact if the feedback is positioned correctly.
Going above his head at this point will not put you in good light.
And the lass needs to man up, you can't treat women any different to men irrespective if they get a bit teary every now and again.
But the point is she is no more upset or stressed than anyone else, she's coping, her work hasn't slipped the way one or two others have. She superficially appears to be more affected because she's showing her feelings differently.Going above his head at this point will not put you in good light.
And the lass needs to man up, you can't treat women any different to men irrespective if they get a bit teary every now and again.
It's a basic biological fact that when men and women are both under emotional stress and coping equally, women's tear reflex does tend to cut in earlier. Not because they are weak and emotional, not because men are callous and unemotional, just because different genders show their feelings differently.
Saying 'a man would only get teary when on the verge of a nervous breakdown so let's assume the same about a woman' is not equal treatment at all. It means a woman gets accused of inability to cope when actually coping as well as the men. Which is what's happening here.
Then I'd address the route cause and in this case it's the manager himself. Some well positioned feedback might help him see how he can improve his own performance and subsequently that of his team.
Higher sales will be a result of these things happening and if he doesn't see that then it would *maybe* be time to speak to his manager, but if you go now you'll be seen as someone who delivers problems but if you try this first then you've done the right thing and his manager will appreciate it more as you've attempted to fix the perceived issue.
Higher sales will be a result of these things happening and if he doesn't see that then it would *maybe* be time to speak to his manager, but if you go now you'll be seen as someone who delivers problems but if you try this first then you've done the right thing and his manager will appreciate it more as you've attempted to fix the perceived issue.
Dr Jekyll said:
But the point is she is no more upset or stressed than anyone else, she's coping, her work hasn't slipped the way one or two others have. She superficially appears to be more affected because she's showing her feelings differently.
Does she know that ? and more importantly does she know that others on the team see it that way ?That alone might give her some confidence.
Far as the manager goes, if upper management know he's a bit of a prat they might just need tipping off so they keep an eye on him..
Crafty_ said:
Does she know that ? and more importantly does she know that others on the team see it that way ?
That alone might give her some confidence.
Yes, and I think so.That alone might give her some confidence.
Crafty_ said:
Far as the manager goes, if upper management know he's a bit of a prat they might just need tipping off so they keep an eye on him..
The manager isn't exactly her manager, though he tries to act like it, he's an account manager representing the customers requirements on the project. His issues are well known and he's likely to be 'seeking opportunities outside the company' before long. But if someone is regarded as unable to cope with something that shouldn't be happening but which others cope with, that still looks like weakness.I hate this kind of corporate culture, in my last post I was exposed to it a bit.
The stigma of stress is a big one but it's offensive to treat people as if they can't cope- I nearly had a breaking point having spent an extremely late night trying to sort something very time critical, coming in the next day with it just handed back to me (now incredibly time critical). I'm not ashamed to say that I was on the point of tears in the briefing with the frustration of the whole situation and how others just passed the buck.
Former partner of mine was an incredibly highly strung corporate solicitor. Couldn't take much needed time off for stress as it would be seen as a sign of weakness and lead to the axe in the next round of redundancies.
The stigma of stress is a big one but it's offensive to treat people as if they can't cope- I nearly had a breaking point having spent an extremely late night trying to sort something very time critical, coming in the next day with it just handed back to me (now incredibly time critical). I'm not ashamed to say that I was on the point of tears in the briefing with the frustration of the whole situation and how others just passed the buck.
Former partner of mine was an incredibly highly strung corporate solicitor. Couldn't take much needed time off for stress as it would be seen as a sign of weakness and lead to the axe in the next round of redundancies.
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