How common are good IT project managers?
Discussion
One would assume IT project manners are ten a penny and competition would be fierce, however in my search for a new job I see the same positions re-advertised month after month. Not only that but almost every project management job I have applied for I have got at at worst a phone call from the recruiter and at best an interview and job offer (which I declined).
Is the industry full of charlatans or am I just lucky?
Is the industry full of charlatans or am I just lucky?
Most IT managers are usually people who could not programme nor do any analysis of any problem and have therefore fallen into the job. Which generally means they do not understand IT nor have any management ability.
I have worked for some very good ones who are able to manage the business, the developers, analysts and deadlines. Using project management techniques such as planning, time management and business analysis sadly these are few and far between.
You also have to remember that they are normally checked into stress city by default and I can imagine that they are having to carry huge loads through the week and weekend. Certainly not a job that I envy.
I have worked for some very good ones who are able to manage the business, the developers, analysts and deadlines. Using project management techniques such as planning, time management and business analysis sadly these are few and far between.
You also have to remember that they are normally checked into stress city by default and I can imagine that they are having to carry huge loads through the week and weekend. Certainly not a job that I envy.
randlemarcus said:
I've been doing this for around twenty years now, and the number of standout excellent ones would struggle to fill a people carrier. Competent ones are slightly more numerous. Ones who actively decrease the chances of success are the majority.
This. I've worked about 15 projects over about 20 years for a variety of clients, and the above is very true. Can count on 1 hand the number of PMs I'd actively choose to work for again. 
Just to add, when an interviewer or recruiter says to me "we've very excited to meet you Mr Hunt, we've been trying to fill this position for 4 months!!!) can I tactfully use this to my advantage when negotiating salary? E.g. go a little harder, knowing full well they are very keen/desperate to have the position filled.
I've been IT for 25+ years and managed projects for 20 of them (early on as Team Lead or Senior Developer), part of the problem is the changing technology and diversification.
In the past a good IT PM could tackle almost any IT project, now I couldn't go near an hardware infrastructure project for example (software development and implementation are my areas).
Like any PM having a background that is in the field is important but I haven't been in a serious technical role for almost 10 years now (use to be an Oracle consultant where I constantly kept a few toes in the technical side) and things have moved on quite a bit since, with Cloud Computing, Apps and the like becoming prevalent, it's challenging to keep up unless on a day to day basis.
Anyway I've just been made redundant so if anyone is looking for a good IT PM in Aberdeen or the surrounding are drop me line.
In the past a good IT PM could tackle almost any IT project, now I couldn't go near an hardware infrastructure project for example (software development and implementation are my areas).
Like any PM having a background that is in the field is important but I haven't been in a serious technical role for almost 10 years now (use to be an Oracle consultant where I constantly kept a few toes in the technical side) and things have moved on quite a bit since, with Cloud Computing, Apps and the like becoming prevalent, it's challenging to keep up unless on a day to day basis.
Anyway I've just been made redundant so if anyone is looking for a good IT PM in Aberdeen or the surrounding are drop me line.
HuntD said:
Just to add, when an interviewer or recruiter says to me "we've very excited to meet you Mr Hunt, we've been trying to fill this position for 4 months!!!) can I tactfully use this to my advantage when negotiating salary? E.g. go a little harder, knowing full well they are very keen/desperate to have the position filled.
OR it can be a sign to run for the hills, I went for a PM role and was told I would be the 10th PM for that project. Thanks but no thanks.I think its a strange role in some companies, essentially its an admin role combined with nagging your colleagues to do their job, often without the authority to actually get stuff done, especially in a complex matrix environment.
IME the good PMs jump across to Product Management where they can make a difference.
768 said:
randlemarcus said:
Ones who actively decrease the chances of success are the majority.
Sums up my experience.tankplanker said:
768 said:
randlemarcus said:
Ones who actively decrease the chances of success are the majority.
Sums up my experience.i'd give it a go...
how hard can it be
im in!
how hard can it be
Vandenberg said:
essentially its an admin role combined with nagging your colleagues to do their job, often without the authority to actually get stuff done
so a piss easy job that a trained monkey could do?im in!
Edited by SystemParanoia on Monday 8th May 21:44
HuntD said:
That's some opinion of project managers!
So what makes one good or bad?
IMHO good ones make the people on projects they manage more productive.So what makes one good or bad?
They keep the crap away from their team(s) and when appropriate will say no to their own management, whilst being communicative and not obstructive. The best project manager I briefly had seemed to have a falling out with the CEO after saying no, had some sort of breakdown and became a lorry driver.
For the most part, I find good teams with an experienced lead do better without project managers and bad teams won't be helped by much.
t and an ability to coax people into achieving more as a team than they can as individuals.768 said:
For the most part, I find good teams with an experienced lead do better without project managers and bad teams won't be helped by much.
Been a developer for 16 years and I've yet to see the benefits a project manager could possibly bring to the work we do.Most projects manager roles only exist because other parts of the team aren't up to standard.
Worked in IT since I left College in 1991
IME a good IT Project Manager is like rocking horse poo
I've only worked with two decent ones in my career, the rest of them range from mildly incompetent to downright #insert expletive of choice# useless.
I've lost count of the number of times I have ended up managing the project myself as well as dealing with the technical design, build and deliver aspect of it as well.
If you find a good one hold on to them !
IME a good IT Project Manager is like rocking horse poo
I've only worked with two decent ones in my career, the rest of them range from mildly incompetent to downright #insert expletive of choice# useless.
I've lost count of the number of times I have ended up managing the project myself as well as dealing with the technical design, build and deliver aspect of it as well.
If you find a good one hold on to them !
I'm an IT/InfoSec PM and have been for about 8-10 years, I'm a contractor and have worked for multiple organisations in that time usually 1-3 years assignments which must mean I'm doing something right, right?
However I've worked with some PM's who really haven't got the acumen to be a PM, just following the organisations SDLC processes rather than get their hands dirty and push to get the correct solution delivered, or to challenge the choices the business is pushing to shoehorn in.
Strangely though I've just finished my last contract (2 years) and I'm struggling to find anything else at the moment, all the suitable roles seem to be down south and crap day rates... first time I've not dropped straight into my next gig. I must be doing something wrong as it's unfamiliar territory for me.
However I've worked with some PM's who really haven't got the acumen to be a PM, just following the organisations SDLC processes rather than get their hands dirty and push to get the correct solution delivered, or to challenge the choices the business is pushing to shoehorn in.
Strangely though I've just finished my last contract (2 years) and I'm struggling to find anything else at the moment, all the suitable roles seem to be down south and crap day rates... first time I've not dropped straight into my next gig. I must be doing something wrong as it's unfamiliar territory for me.
My challenge with IT project managers, having been involved in a few fairly large projects for my employer over the last 12 months is that they often understand the technical bits, but don't understand the customer implications. Or they'll land something half baked in order to hit their deadlines, rather than admit they need more time to get it right.
Don't start me on the people who manage the project managers, though - who'll think nothing of swapping PM part way through a project, or giving you an outsourced PM on the other side of the world to save money.
Don't start me on the people who manage the project managers, though - who'll think nothing of swapping PM part way through a project, or giving you an outsourced PM on the other side of the world to save money.
Trabi601 said:
My challenge with IT project managers, having been involved in a few fairly large projects for my employer over the last 12 months is that they often understand the technical bits, but don't understand the customer implications. Or they'll land something half baked in order to hit their deadlines, rather than admit they need more time to get it right.
Don't start me on the people who manage the project managers, though - who'll think nothing of swapping PM part way through a project, or giving you an outsourced PM on the other side of the world to save money.
Exactly, in my last role they brought in a new programme manager for InfoSec and all he was concerned about was hitting the dates, no consideration for whether the solution I was trying to design and implement through our outsourced 3rd party was fit for purpose, needless to say he lasted 3 months before leaving as again he didn't understand or care what was being delivered against the business requirements. Don't start me on the people who manage the project managers, though - who'll think nothing of swapping PM part way through a project, or giving you an outsourced PM on the other side of the world to save money.
Likewise they've swapped PM's at will because they can, and to eventually reduce expensive contract headcount, rather than realise who's good, got the knowledge and can deliver, totally counter intuitive for a delivery function IMO.
Interesting thread this as I've project managed a number of small to medium IT projects over the last 17 years but because I have none of the required certificates I don't even get a look in the door if applying for IT PM jobs, there can't be too much of a shortage otherwise my experience would at least rate a phone call surely...
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