What's involved in the "hot start fix" ??
Discussion
I've noticed that the starter is sometimes slow in starting the Griff when the car is hot/ up to normal running temp and have made a short stop/shut off. Almost seems like a low battery situation, but the battery tests fine. Is the fix mechanical , electrical, worn out starter, or ignition/ECU related??
Something I can resolve myself without big issues, or best left to the garage?
Seems I've heard this for Griffs & Chimeras?
Thanks,
Doug
Something I can resolve myself without big issues, or best left to the garage?
Seems I've heard this for Griffs & Chimeras?
Thanks,
Doug
It's a funny one because there's loads of opinions on what the cause is. No start at all could be the immobiliser relay wearing out and not having the strength to kick a hot solenoid in, or the solenoid's cooked medium to well done and just won't perform when hot.
I had a non-crank hot start a couple of times (at the same petrol station funnily enough) and bunged a new starter on it to replace the '97 original and it's been fine since. My car doesn't have the meta immobiliser and wrong relay to solenoid circuit that TVR fitted.
Slow crank when hot could possibly be hot'n'crispy under-rated power cables, a bad earth to engine block that breaks down further when hot or more likely a medium to rare cooked starter and solenoid - if the battery is definitely 100% ok.
Fitting the hot start relay means the solenoid gets a much bigger kick of power than when being fed direct through the immobiliser and ignition switch and wiring, so it'd overcome a sticky solenoid easier. I'd check the engine earth strap is good and make sure the main earth from battery to chassis is good and clean first.
http://www.chimaerapages.com/install-hot-start-kit...
Loads of threads here!!
I had a non-crank hot start a couple of times (at the same petrol station funnily enough) and bunged a new starter on it to replace the '97 original and it's been fine since. My car doesn't have the meta immobiliser and wrong relay to solenoid circuit that TVR fitted.
Slow crank when hot could possibly be hot'n'crispy under-rated power cables, a bad earth to engine block that breaks down further when hot or more likely a medium to rare cooked starter and solenoid - if the battery is definitely 100% ok.
Fitting the hot start relay means the solenoid gets a much bigger kick of power than when being fed direct through the immobiliser and ignition switch and wiring, so it'd overcome a sticky solenoid easier. I'd check the engine earth strap is good and make sure the main earth from battery to chassis is good and clean first.
http://www.chimaerapages.com/install-hot-start-kit...
Loads of threads here!!
As you describe that it does turn over but slow, I would focus on the first half of Andes feedback about the heavy wiring condition or starter motor condition if as you say the battery is fine. The relay issue is common but more relevant when the starter does not show any life or has delays to start turning over.
So far I've replaced the earthing cables, new starter and had the immobiliser circuit retired to the relay. I imagine the next job would be the +ve cable when that gives up.
A trick to rule out the earth is to run a jump cable from the engine to the -ve terminal of the battery, see if the engine spins faster when hot.
So far I've replaced the earthing cables, new starter and had the immobiliser circuit retired to the relay. I imagine the next job would be the +ve cable when that gives up.
A trick to rule out the earth is to run a jump cable from the engine to the -ve terminal of the battery, see if the engine spins faster when hot.
My car had similar problems.
My immobiliser has been disconnected so that obviously wasn't the problem. When re-starting, say at a filling station when hot, the solenoid would engage but the starter would only turn over very slowly. Twenty minutes later it would re-start normally.
Following advice on here from Chimpongas I replaced the factory 25mm starter cable with 40mm. I also replaced the earth cables with 40mm and in addition to the existing ran an earth cable direct to one of the two starter motor fixing bolts.
Car now starts just as well hot or cold.
My immobiliser has been disconnected so that obviously wasn't the problem. When re-starting, say at a filling station when hot, the solenoid would engage but the starter would only turn over very slowly. Twenty minutes later it would re-start normally.
Following advice on here from Chimpongas I replaced the factory 25mm starter cable with 40mm. I also replaced the earth cables with 40mm and in addition to the existing ran an earth cable direct to one of the two starter motor fixing bolts.
Car now starts just as well hot or cold.
The below circuit achieves 3 objectives and is very simple yet so effective
1 - Car can't possibly be cranked when engine is running, this could save a starter pinion or two
2 - Solves any problems caused by volt drops from ignition switch to starter motor solenoid, more reliable crank voltage
3 - Increases the Alternators Rotor excitation during cranking and this lowers the Alternator cut-in speed
1 - Car can't possibly be cranked when engine is running, this could save a starter pinion or two
2 - Solves any problems caused by volt drops from ignition switch to starter motor solenoid, more reliable crank voltage
3 - Increases the Alternators Rotor excitation during cranking and this lowers the Alternator cut-in speed
Edited by Penelope Stopit on Friday 12th May 07:55
mk1fan said:
How does it prevent cranking when the engine is running?
When the engine is running there is a positive output at the alternator warning light terminal, when turning the key to the crank position there is a positive output to the relay, the relay will not pull-in with a positive applied to each end of its pull-in coil
Thxs for all the advice and links: I'll confirm I'm getting 13v or more off the alternator output, add the solenoid relay fix, and also check & cleanup all the +/- connections...and also add an extra(new) ground cable at the same time. Greatly appreciate the comments, and also agree that having more ground cables on TVR's is a good thing!
Penelope Stopit said:
The below circuit achieves 3 objectives and is very simple yet so effective
1 - Car can't possibly be cranked when engine is running, this could save a starter pinion or two
2 - Solves any problems caused by volt drops from ignition switch to starter motor solenoid, more reliable crank voltage
3 - Increases the Alternators Rotor excitation during cranking and this lowers the Alternator cut-in speed
I would stick a diode across the relay coil to quench the back emf otherwise circuit in the alternator may be damaged. 1 - Car can't possibly be cranked when engine is running, this could save a starter pinion or two
2 - Solves any problems caused by volt drops from ignition switch to starter motor solenoid, more reliable crank voltage
3 - Increases the Alternators Rotor excitation during cranking and this lowers the Alternator cut-in speed
steve-V8s said:
Penelope Stopit said:
The below circuit achieves 3 objectives and is very simple yet so effective
1 - Car can't possibly be cranked when engine is running, this could save a starter pinion or two
2 - Solves any problems caused by volt drops from ignition switch to starter motor solenoid, more reliable crank voltage
3 - Increases the Alternators Rotor excitation during cranking and this lowers the Alternator cut-in speed
I would stick a diode across the relay coil to quench the back emf otherwise circuit in the alternator may be damaged. 1 - Car can't possibly be cranked when engine is running, this could save a starter pinion or two
2 - Solves any problems caused by volt drops from ignition switch to starter motor solenoid, more reliable crank voltage
3 - Increases the Alternators Rotor excitation during cranking and this lowers the Alternator cut-in speed
This is a massive mistake on my part and I appreciate you pointing it out
I will have to pull-in all my diagrams and re-draw the relays
ks sake! Can't relay on anyone. 
davep said:
Penelope Stopit said:
I doubt I will ever recover from this
Sorry to be the harbinger of further bad news ... but the Griffith electrics schematic you posted on another thread is about 30 years out-of-date!If one wishes to kick a person when they are down they should go ahead and do so without saying sorry beforehand
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