Why is the 981 so different to the 987?
Discussion
Having owned both, three things really stand out to me.
Despite the engines being the same in both cars they drive totally differently. I would describe the 3.4 in my 987.2 as lethargic - fast and beautiful yes, but slow to rev for what is a sports car, probably caused by super long gearing. My 981 on the other hand revs like an absolute b
d, you go anywhere near the throttle especially in sports plus mode and its a frenzy to the red line.
Then there is the ride quality, I'd say the 987 is pure sports car and the 981 is more comfort orientated yet seems to go round corners just as well. Why did Porsche decide to make the ride softer, and how does it manage to corner just as well? Is it just a case of making the track wider and the wheel base longer?
Lastly build quality, my 987 feels like its made out of granite and will last a million miles. My much newer 981 has multiple interior rattles and numerous electrical faults including a PCM, all of which Porsche will not/cannot resolve. Oh and it went to the local OPC the other day on a flat bed with ignition lead failure.
Despite the engines being the same in both cars they drive totally differently. I would describe the 3.4 in my 987.2 as lethargic - fast and beautiful yes, but slow to rev for what is a sports car, probably caused by super long gearing. My 981 on the other hand revs like an absolute b
d, you go anywhere near the throttle especially in sports plus mode and its a frenzy to the red line. Then there is the ride quality, I'd say the 987 is pure sports car and the 981 is more comfort orientated yet seems to go round corners just as well. Why did Porsche decide to make the ride softer, and how does it manage to corner just as well? Is it just a case of making the track wider and the wheel base longer?
Lastly build quality, my 987 feels like its made out of granite and will last a million miles. My much newer 981 has multiple interior rattles and numerous electrical faults including a PCM, all of which Porsche will not/cannot resolve. Oh and it went to the local OPC the other day on a flat bed with ignition lead failure.
Beknown said:
Having owned both, three things really stand out to me.
Despite the engines being the same in both cars they drive totally differently. I would describe the 3.4 in my 987.2 as lethargic - fast and beautiful yes, but slow to rev for what is a sports car, probably caused by super long gearing. My 981 on the other hand revs like an absolute bd, you go anywhere near the throttle especially in sports plus mode and its a frenzy to the red line.
Then there is the ride quality, I'd say the 987 is pure sports car and the 981 is more comfort orientated yet seems to go round corners just as well. Why did Porsche decide to make the ride softer, and how does it manage to corner just as well? Is it just a case of making the track wider and the wheel base longer?
Lastly build quality, my 987 feels like its made out of granite and will last a million miles. My much newer 981 has multiple interior rattles and numerous electrical faults including a PCM, all of which Porsche will not/cannot resolve. Oh and it went to the local OPC the other day on a flat bed with ignition lead failure.
Its possible that the lack of a power steering pump, Alternator and AC compressor can help it rev better. I've also read somewhere - so pinch of salt required - that they used different internal parts on the later engines to get the weight down and improve emissions. Is the 981 itself lighter than a 987?Despite the engines being the same in both cars they drive totally differently. I would describe the 3.4 in my 987.2 as lethargic - fast and beautiful yes, but slow to rev for what is a sports car, probably caused by super long gearing. My 981 on the other hand revs like an absolute b
d, you go anywhere near the throttle especially in sports plus mode and its a frenzy to the red line. Then there is the ride quality, I'd say the 987 is pure sports car and the 981 is more comfort orientated yet seems to go round corners just as well. Why did Porsche decide to make the ride softer, and how does it manage to corner just as well? Is it just a case of making the track wider and the wheel base longer?
Lastly build quality, my 987 feels like its made out of granite and will last a million miles. My much newer 981 has multiple interior rattles and numerous electrical faults including a PCM, all of which Porsche will not/cannot resolve. Oh and it went to the local OPC the other day on a flat bed with ignition lead failure.
Beknown said:
Despite the engines being the same in both cars they drive totally differently. I would describe the 3.4 in my 987.2 as lethargic - fast and beautiful yes, but slow to rev for what is a sports car, probably caused by super long gearing. My 981 on the other hand revs like an absolute bd, you go anywhere near the throttle especially in sports plus mode and its a frenzy to the red line.
Did you also have Sport/sport plus on the 987? Certainly would not describe mine as lethargic...and in sport plus the response is similar to how you describe the 981 response. However mine is an R and PDK so we might not be comparing 987.2 apples.d, you go anywhere near the throttle especially in sports plus mode and its a frenzy to the red line. boxsey said:
Did you also have Sport/sport plus on the 987? Certainly would not describe mine as lethargic...and in sport plus the response is similar to how you describe the 981 response. However mine is an R and PDK so we might not be comparing 987.2 apples.
My experience (albeit limited) is that the engines vary, a lot. The two other R's that I drove to prior to my current car, were just that, lethargic. I put it down to the first example being very new, and thus its engine still being tight. But the second example at Cameron's, whilst better wasn't a patch on my current steed, which revs beautifully and feels incredibly strong all the way to the redline too.I suspect it's all down to usage and fuel :- Drive them gently all the time and use cheap fuel and they'll feel lazy. Use decent fuel, and spank them hard once run in and they rev more freely.
As for the handling of the later car being better ? Define better ...... The earlier car is more raw, visceral and engaging, the lack of EPAS makes the steering more feelsome and unfiltered than the newer car. No doubt the suspension on the newer car is more refined and most likely has some tweaks engineered in to the geometry to make it turn in more crisply and a some degree of compliance in the rear suspension that allows some rear steer, both of which will make it feel sharper and the driver more god like ......
As for the ride, very few new models ride worse than their forbears, and unlike the good old days, rock hard, board-like rides are no longer acceptable to the masses. With clever engineering the likes of Porsche have succeeded in allowing us to have our cake and eat, that being a decent ride with good handling.
Build quality ? What build quality ? They're now mass produced cars with all that entails, some will be squeak/rattle free, others won't. Very much luck of the draw I'm afraid.
My 987 didn't have sports chrono, but I'd still say the 981 revs quite a bit faster even without sport mode on.
I did read that although its the same 9A1 engine, most of the parts have been changed, so it's not really the same is it? Would to love know the facts.
Re suspension, I can only assume that in theory a 981 would corner faster than a 987, it has to surely otherwise Porsche would be going backwards? I just want to understand how it is technically possible to make a car more comfortable yet handle the same.
I did read that although its the same 9A1 engine, most of the parts have been changed, so it's not really the same is it? Would to love know the facts.
Re suspension, I can only assume that in theory a 981 would corner faster than a 987, it has to surely otherwise Porsche would be going backwards? I just want to understand how it is technically possible to make a car more comfortable yet handle the same.
I've read that the 981 can achieve massive lateral g even with the 18 inch wheels and tyres. I think the jump in the overall diameter of the tyre by an inch has something to do with it. If you think about the contact patch of a tyre it is probably going to be some form of rectangle maybe with curves but simply a rectangle. Now wider tyres widen the rectangle but that's it. Surely if you go bigger in overall circumference then you widen the contact patch in the other axis. A bigger contact patch gives more grip - simple as.
Beknown said:
But the tyre sizes are the same across models, with the exception of 20" wheels?
They are the same circumference and width across all options for the 981 - yes. But these are all 1 inch bigger in overall diameter to the 987 options. Hence why I think this helps the 981 achieve more lateral g than the 987. Apparently Porsche were worried about going up an inch as even though this added grip they didn't want to add weight which is why the 20 inch wheels are very light. Also interestingly the 235 35 20 inch front tyre is only rated at 88 which I believe makes it lighter. I think my 20 inch wheels with tyres on are lighter to handle than the 19 inch winter setup I have. Fronts are feather weights and why I've been thinking about using a set of 4 fronts.isaldiri said:
I think tyres have simply got stickier over time so that's how the newer cars are generating much more lateral grip. Contact patch increase due to an extra inch of tyre diameter isn't by itself going to make a very considerable difference in cornering grip imo.
I'd agree with this too. A car manufacturer like Porsche is constantly chasing ever decreasing gains with its platforms. The 981 was more of a wholesale change to the 986/987. Is the car itself wider / longer?If any thing the 981 feels slower to me, due to the nicer ride, bigger wheels, so that in effect give longer gears as the circumference is larger over all.
Sports mode makes the 987 so if your old one did not have it, they do feel a bit slow to react, but the 987 3.4 revs out with zero issue it's a great unit.
Some people have lazy engines, ie those who run in for 1k miles at 3k revs and then never tend to go above 4k ever, I read here a lot of people WOT at 30mph in 4th !! and expect the car to rocket off ! these cars just end up with lazy engines.
The track is wider on the 981 but that's why I tell people to fit 7mm spacers to improve the turn in on a 987.
987 feels like a sports car , the 981 feels like a nice car with lets face it rubbish steering feel.
I jump in both all the time as my mate drives a 981 and I drive the R.
981 does nothing for me and I have had to avoid the range, that's most impart to the gen 1 EPS.
Sports mode makes the 987 so if your old one did not have it, they do feel a bit slow to react, but the 987 3.4 revs out with zero issue it's a great unit.
Some people have lazy engines, ie those who run in for 1k miles at 3k revs and then never tend to go above 4k ever, I read here a lot of people WOT at 30mph in 4th !! and expect the car to rocket off ! these cars just end up with lazy engines.
The track is wider on the 981 but that's why I tell people to fit 7mm spacers to improve the turn in on a 987.
987 feels like a sports car , the 981 feels like a nice car with lets face it rubbish steering feel.
I jump in both all the time as my mate drives a 981 and I drive the R.
981 does nothing for me and I have had to avoid the range, that's most impart to the gen 1 EPS.
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